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Canada is pied a terre interest deductible? - david ingram expert US CANADA cross border non-resident income tax help and preparation by five tax experts with years of experience with , Panama, American and Mexican income taxCanadian Income Tax Help - CEN-TAPEDE centapede-ca at lists.centa.comTue Aug 19 09:52:04 PDT 2008
My question is: Canadian-specific QUESTION: I am an employee but also run a service business on the side. The service business accounts for about 25% of my annual income. My primary residence is on one of the Gulf Islands, while both my business and work is in the lower mainland. If I were to purchase a condo for living purposes in the lower mainland, would the interest on the mortgage payments be deductible on my business income? ---------------------------------------------- david ingram replies: The answer is no as you have described the case. However, if you use the methods you can find in the last eleven pages of my November 2001 Newsletter in the top left hand box at www.centa.com, you can make it deductible as long as your service business is NOT incorporated. You should listen to the Sunday radio shows, call in with a question and attend a couple of the free seminars. Information on that follows and then there is a b it about the history of making a Canadian Mortgage deductible. Every Thursday at 12 noon and 7 PM, Fred Snyder of Dundee Wealth Management presents free Financial Seminars for his clients, potential clients and anyone who phones and asks to attend. THERE is NO CHARGE! (I used to charge up to $999.00 for essentially the same thing) AND - NO ONE'S ARM IS TWISTED TO BUY SOMETHING. They are presented at the Dundee Boardroom (holds about 30 people max) 1764 West 7th Vancouver, BC phone (604) 731-8900 - ask for Freda to register for free. These are genuine educational seminars dealing with everything from how to buy a house to making your mortgage tax deductible to buying an RRSP to alternatives to RRSP accounts to estate planning. So what started as 13 separate seminars has now evolved into 23 separate topics. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO ALL OF THEM. ONE LADY CAME TO 53 separate seminars and her husband came to about 20 with her. If you have a financial consultant, bring them. People have brought their bankers and life insurance agents with them. Take your spouse, your best friend, your son, your daughter, your mother or your worst enemy But do phone 604-731-8900 Fred Snyder also is the host of ITS YOUR MONEY every Sunday morning on CHBD (600 on AM dial) from 9:00 to 10:30. This is a phone in financial show which I appear as a guest on the last Sunday of every month. (Originally I was the co-host but the program is really devoted to BC finances because of BC Securities Legislation and my practice is world wide.) You can listen to 4 weeks back at www.600am.com and listen to the program live around the world every Sunday morning at the same spot. We have taken calls from around the world. In one case, a lady phoned from Florida, got her answer and then asked if I was the David ingram she knew in Regina back in 1959. Small world as they say. Call (604) 280-0600 with your question on Sunday Morning. And as of July 20, 2008, IT'S YOUR MONEY also appears in a different version LIVE on CKNW from 6 PM to 7 PM as a phone in show to answer your questions. Call (604) 280-9898 or 1-877-399-9898 or *9898 on your cell to get your question on the air. Callers to the show are awarded a free written financial plan for the future - be prepared to spend a couple of hours on this. As an aside, I do not do them any more but used to charge up to $3,000 for essentially the same thing in the days before the wonderful computer programs available today to assist. Every Thursday at 12 noon and 7 PM, Fred Snyder of Dundee Wealth Management presents free Financial Seminars for his clients, potential clients and anyone who phones and asks to attend. THERE is NO CHARGE! (I used to charge up to $999.00 for essentially the same thing) AND - NO ONE'S ARM IS TWISTED TO BUY SOMETHING. They are presented at the Dundee Boardroom (holds about 30 people max) 1764 West 7th Vancouver, BC phone (604) 731-8900 - ask for Freda to register for free. These are genuine educational seminars dealing with everything from how to buy a house to making your mortgage tax deductible to buying an RRSP to alternatives to RRSP accounts to estate planning. So what started as 13 separate seminars has now evolved into 23 separate topics. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO ALL OF THEM. ONE LADY CAME TO 53 separate seminars and her husband came to about 20 with her. If you have a financial consultant, bring them. People have brought their bankers and life insurance agents with them. Take your spouse, your best friend, your son, your daughter, your mother or your worst enemy But do phone 604-731-8900 Fred Snyder also is the host of ITS YOUR MONEY every Sunday morning on CHBD (600 on AM dial) from 9:00 to 10:30. This is a phone in financial show which I appear as a guest on the last Sunday of every month. (Originally I was the co-host but the program is really devoted to BC finances because of BC Securities Legislation and my practice is world wide.) You can listen to 4 weeks back at www.600am.com and listen to the program live around the world every Sunday morning at the same spot. We have taken calls from around the world. In one case, a lady phoned from Florida, got her answer and then asked if I was the David ingram she knew in Regina back in 1959. Small world as they say. Call (604) 280-0600 with your question on Sunday Morning. And as of July 20, 2008, IT'S YOUR MONEY also appears in a different version LIVE on CKNW from 6 PM to 7 PM as a phone in show to answer your questions. Call (604) 280-9898 or 1-877-399-9898 or *9898 on your cell to get your question on the air. Callers to the show are awarded a free written financial plan for the future - be prepared to spend a couple of hours on this. As an aside, I do not do them any more but used to charge up to $3,000 for essentially the same thing in the days before the wonderful computer programs available today to assist. ------------------------------------------------------------- - Anyone thinking of buying real estate right now anywhere should read Garth Turner's Book, "the Greater Fool" - you can find a blog on it at www.greaterfool.ca - This book points out what is happening with real estate around the world and in particular North America. For instance, today's blog shows graphs for Calgary. If you get the book and I recommend you do, read the last two pages (the Afterward) first. You will find that the author is a living in a house. However, he is living in the 'right' house. Garth is a former Conservative Minister of National Revenue, left politics for ten years and is now the sitting Federal Liberal Member of Halton in Ontario. I am a graduate of UBC's Urban Land Economics Course and have bought and sold over 3,000 properties. Been there, done that. I am NOT selling my house. I have lived here for 39 years now and watched it grow from $42,000 to $350,000, down to $156,000 up to $500,000, down to $350,000 again and then climb to $1,200,000. It is only logical that it should drop a couple of hundred thousand again before starting to climb again. Those who have been here (I work out of my house so some 400 clients have been here) know that it has a spectacular view, is on the edge of a forest, and every Sunday morning, I can make it to the radio station in 20 minutes without pushing it. In 15 minutes, I can leave the house, ride my bike around Stanley Park (33 minutes) and be back home within an hour and 15 minutes. It has a fantastic location and fits my needs. I am looking over 100 miles at Hurricane Ridge in Washington state from my Living Room (I can't see it today because of the haze but on a good day) ( you can google earth its location in Vancouver by looking at http://maps.google.com/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&tab=wl (search 4466 Prospect Road, North Vancouver BC Canada - My house is the one with the Black 87 Cadillac Sixty Special beside it and the big tree in the back yard). and see what i mean. Now that I have said I love my location, you should also read Ozzie Jurock's book - Forget About Location, Location, Location. You can get it at http://www.forgetlocation.com/ -- see more about Ozzie and his real estate seminars at www.jurock.com. Incidentally, I will be speaking at Ozzie's US Land Rush seminar on Investing in Vancouver at the Marriott Pinnacle Hotel on Sept 6, 2008 and you can register for it at http://www2.jurock.com/insider/seminars/landrushusa.asp The price is $97.00 for strangers to the Jurock team and this day is devoted to Canadians investing in US Real Estate. Ozzie has another Canadian Land Rush taking place on October 4. Then I will be speaking at a seminar on moving to and investing in Mexico on Oct 17th in Vancouver and I think Oct 18th in Calgary but do not know the locations yet. And Garth Turner and I will be speaking on Sept 20 at the Convention Centre in Victoria and on Sept 21st at the Convention Centre in Nanaimo along with another four major speakers on money. You can register free for these at www.centa.com - click on MONEY EXPO to register and while there, if you scroll down, you will find a 15 minute interview that I did with Garth Turner. If you miss the free pre-registration, you can still pay 415.00 at the door and Fred Snyder, Host of ITS YOUR MONEY on CHBD every Sunday Morning (600AM) from 9 to 10:30 AM and CKNW (980AM) from 6 PM to 7 PM every Sunday and Ralph Hahmann from his Victoria office. ------------------------------- Hi, My wife and I rent a basement suite and in the spring bought a condo and started renting that right away and will be following your instructions on the "smith maneuver" and want to be clear that we can put the rent from both the basement suite and the condo down on our mortgage and then use the line of credit to pay all the expenses on the condo (including the mortgage)? Also, we would like to have your office prepare our tax return so how soon prior to the dead line next year would you take new clients? ------------------------------------------------------------ david ingram replies: as you have described your action, the interest on the line of credit set up to handles the expenses of the rental condo should be deductible under current legislation and the tax cases that are out there. If you intend to use us, we would like the information as son as possible, by the end of March if possible. However, we do not appreciate piecemeal information where you send something when you know it is not all there. Please hold off sending to us until you have everything. As well as the Smith Maneuver, you should read the November 20012 newsletter in the top left hand box at www.centa.com. Reading the following and the tax cases involved will help a bit. My question is: Canadian-specific QUESTION: We have a rental property generating regular rental income and got enough equity to cover our outstanding principle residence's mortgage. Is there a way we can move this equity to pay off the principle residence's mortgage and still be able to legitimately claim interest payable as tax deductible? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- david ingram replies: Had 91 people at a free seminar at the Holiday INN on Sunday August 12th. The following is the handout at that seminar. Hope it helps. ---------------------------------- We recently bought a 4plex in Kitimat as a rental investment. We used a Scotia home equity loan for the down payment and a TD mortgage for the other 75%. We have a mortgage on our principal residence in Langley of $244,000. Our monthly payments on the 4plex will total about $1,300 , and the rents will be about $2,000. What would be the smartest method for paying this mortgage? What do we do with the excess cash flow? Is it possible to deduct the interest on our primary residence mortgage? Thanks. -------------------------- david ingram replies: I had 91 people at a free seminar on this subject today and am just about all "free"ed up on the subject. You should be taking the rent you receive and use it to reduce the non-deductible mortgage on your Langley house.
You can find out more by reading my November 2001 Newsletter in the top left hand box at www.centa.com. Reading Fraser Smith's Book 'THE SMITH MANOUVRE' will also give you ideas on how to make the Langley Mortgage deductible. Your excess flow should be used to reduce the $244,000 mortgage as soon as possible. Of course, the interest on the down payment loan is also deductible on Form T776. The following is part of the handout at today's seminar - David Ingram's US/Canada Services Mortgage Interest as a Deduction in 2007 - dealing with GAAR I first conceived of this method in 1975/76 when a client of mine had a rental duplex and had a tenant who was injured in a car accident. It was at the time of the changeover from private insurance to ICBC and the injured single mother tenant was waiting for a car accident insurance settlement. My client allowed his tenant to stay in the half duplex for more than a year and to stay afloat him self, he borrowed money to pay the duplex bills. When doing his 1975 tax return, we deducted the interest paid on the loan because the purpose of the loan was clearly to fund the rental duplex. When he finally got his cheque for more than $5,000 from the tenant, it would have been all over if he had just paid the loan off and we had not thought about it. But my client, bless his soul, phoned and asked if he had to pay off the loan (which was deductible) or could he use the money for another non-deductible purpose. My answer, after thinking about it for a day or so, was that he could use the $5,000+ for any purpose he could think of. At the same time, I said this, I was also writing something for the North Shore Credit Union and put my 'new' method of making the mortgage interest deductible in this report which they then published as part of an advertisement in the North shore News in (I think) November, 1976. I expanded it and it was next published by Hancock House Publishers in my Investment Guide in 1979, 1980 and 1985 and 1991 and BC Business magazine in 1979. Sometime in there, the Ontario Dental Association also ran it in their magazine. It then became part of a lot of Internet sites and can be found in the March 1997 and November 2001 newsletters at www.centa.com in the top left hand corner. I was pretty heavily involved in the Federal Conservative Party (ran for the North Shore Nomination in 1978) and am proud to say that we got mortgage interest as a tax deduction on the 1979 federal Income tax return. Unfortunately, Joe Clark, the Prime Minister at the time, did not count the number of yes votes in the House (there were enough if he had waited for the Social credit members to arrive) and lost a non-confidence motion on Dec 12, 1979, and on Feb 18, 1980, Pierre Trudeau was re-elected as Prime Minister and even though there was a 4-page form and a line on the T-1 General that year, the deduction was killed retroactively by the liberal government and we no longer had this benefit for all without manipulating the paperwork. In 1981, Fred Snyder was running a series of seminars and teaching my method to a lot of different groups. In one seminar, he taught it to Realtors, McCauley, Nicolls, Maitland and Company and the manager Fraser Smith wrote Fred a letter thanking him for explaining the methods. In 1985, Fraser Smith than published the SMITH MANOUVRE which explains the method in great detail and at the time, VANCITY Savings Credit Union was featured in the book and was very good at setting up the method. Then on Oct 27, 1988 John Singleton had approximately $300,000 in his lawyer's capital account. He got permission from his law partners to take the $300,000 out (it was his but was being used as security in his law practice). He used it to buy a house and then used the house as security to borrow $300,000 which he then put back into the law firm's capital account to fund the law practice. This was all done in one day. Of course, since the money in the account was now borrowed for business purposes, he deducted the interest on his 1988 and 1989 returns and the Tax Department turned him down. He appealed and lost in the Tax Court of Canada but won in the Federal court of Appeals. The CRA appealed to the Supreme Court and in October 2001, the Supreme Court of Canada found in favour of John Singleton in a 5 to 2 decision. This case has now been quoted and cited in many other cases. In OVERS 2006 TCC 26, Mr Overs paid back a shareholder-loan, which would have been included in his income. By doing what he did, co-incidentally, the interest expense was made deductible. Mrs Overs borrowed funds to purchase shares of his holding company at their fair market value. However, Mr Overs did NOT use a 73(1) rollover as Lipson did. Therefore, no capital gain was realized but the attribution rules in section 74(1) worked to transfer the interest expense on the wife's borrowed funds -- back to him. Judge Little turned down the CRA's claim that tax benefits arose from this series of transactions. The taxpayer followed the Income Tax Act in repaying his loan and transferring the shares to his wife. Justice Little ruled that the transactions were NOT avoidance transactions and therefore GAAR did not apply. Judge Little ruled that none of the transactions could be considered "abusive tax avoidance". And Judge Bowman ruled in favour of Evans (2005 TCC 684). Judge Bowman found there were no avoidance transactions in what could only be described as a super complicated and very sophisticated series of business restructurings that ended up with a former shareholder receiving cash by using specific rules in the Act, including sections 85 (rollovers), 110.6 (capital gains exemption), 112 (tax free inter-corporate dividends), 74.5 (attribution) and ss. 84(3) (deemed dividends). Judge Bowman assumed that these 'were' avoidance transactions. He then dealt with them on an individual basis to decide whether the avoidance transactions were 'abusive'. His final decision was that provisions of the Income Tax Act operated as intended and there could not be any abuse. However, Judge Bowman was not of the same opinion with the LIPSON Family who lost in Lipson v. The Queen, 2006 TCC 148 Mr Lipson owned a profitable business and: 1.. The Lipsons contracted to buy a home in Forest Hills in Toronto 2.. Mrs Lipson took out a demand loan to buy share in the family business from her husband. 3.. The shares were transferred to Mrs Lipson as a section 73(1) rollover 4.. Mr Lipson used the funds to buy the house 5.. They "both" took out a mortgage on the house to repay the demand loan Judge Bowman used the Section 245 GAAR provisions to rule that the Lipson family was guilty of Gross Abuse of the Tax system. Perhaps, if they had a business reason for the loan or had not used the Section 73(1) tax free rollover, he would have found in their favour as he did with the EVANS 2005 DTC 1762 case. In the LIPSON case the wife's borrowing did not put income in her hands and it was unclear what the business reason for the transactions were. The following was an excel spreadsheet that was presented and you might be able to figure it out. 1 WHY BOTHER MAKING YOUR MORTGAGE INTEREST DEDUCTIBLE?? 1 2 by david Ingram - www.centa.com - (604) 980-0321 2 3 WELL - LET'S PRETEND THAT YOU HAVE AN OUTSTANDING $ 100,000.00 3 4 Let's pretend that you are paying 6% 0.06 times 6000.00 4 5
5 6 How much do you have to earn to pay 6000 6000.00 6 7 At a 0.3 marginal tax rate you would need 8571.43 7 8
you would pay tax of
2571.43 8 9
To Have enough to pay the interest of 6000.00 9 10 TWO
10 11 WELL - LET'S PRETEND THAT YOU HAVE AN OUTSTANDING $ 300,000.00 11 12 Let's pretend that you are paying 6% 0.06 times 18000.00 12 13
13 14 How much do you have to earn to pay 18000 18000.00 14 15 At a 0.35 marginal tax rate you would need 27692.31 15 16
you would pay tax of
9692.31 16 17
To Have enough to pay the interest of 18000.00 17 18 THREE
18 19 WELL - LET'S PRETEND THAT YOU HAVE AN OUTSTANDING $ 600,000.00 19 20 Let's pretend that you are paying 6% 0.06 times 36000.00 20 21
21 22 How much do you have to earn to pay 36000 36000.00 22 23 At a 0.4 marginal tax rate you would need 60000.00 23 24
you would pay tax of
24000.00 24 25
To Have enough to pay the interest of 36000.00 25 26
26 27 You can easily see that the larger the mortgage payment
27 28 the more money you have to make and the larger your
28 29 marginal tax rate would be - BC runs from 23% up to $35,000
29 30 and is 44% over $118,000 or so
30 31 DEDUCTIBLE
31 32 But if the last mortgage of 600000 could be deductible 36000.00 32 33 the interest paid of 36000 would get a tax deduction of 14400.00 33 34
and you would only need to earn the difference 21600.00 34 35
instead of the 60000 on line 23 above 35 36 Why only 21600
36 37 Well, you could earn 21600 , borrow 14400 (line 33) 37 38 for a few days from Fred, and then pay Fred back with the refund 38 39
39 40 The difference in earnings is 60000 line 23
40 41 minus new necessity of 21600 Line 34
41 42 for an earnings savings of 38400
42 43 or a monthly difference of 3200
43 44
44 45 And, if you are self employed as I am, I would have to do
45 46 $200,000 of business and pay $140,000 of expenses to have a profit of 46 47 $60,000 left over to pay the tax on the $60,000 on line 23 (Aug 11, 2007) 47 And this will also show the mathematics of paying down a mortgage with the earnings from a Mutual fund. Using New Securities Account to make mortgage deductible This is to show the method only
Most, if not all people buy a Mutual fund and have the dividends reinvested
in the fund. Do NOT DO THAT if you want a deductible mortgage
Non
Deductible Non HELOC Assume you have a borrowed 100,000 to buy funds and they pay 0.06 original less Deductible interest A B C D E F New G H I J K L M You pay 0.06 pay your 35% Tax borrow for Invest't Mutual earnings worth mortgage earnings original not de- borrowed interest Refund new funds loan Fund 0.06
ductible 2007 100000 6000 2100 6000 106000 100000 6000 106000 100000 6000 94000 6000 2008 106000 6360 2226 6360 112360 106000 6360 112360 94000 6360 87640 5640 2009 112360 6742 2360 6742 119102 112360 6742 119102 87640 6742 80898 5258 2010 119102 7146 2501 7146 126248 119102 7146 126248 80898 7146 73752 4854 2011 126248 7575 2651 7575 133823 126248 7575 133823 73752 7575 66177 4425 2012 133823 8029 2810 8029 141852 133823 8029 141852 66177 8029 58148 3971 2013 141852 8511 2979 8511 150363 141852 8511 150363 58148 8511 49637 3489 2014 150363 9022 3158 9022 159385 150363 9022 159385 49637 9022 40615 2978 2015 159385 9563 3347 9563 168948 159385 9563 168948 40615 9563 31052 2437 2016 168948 10137 3548 10137 179085 168948 10137 179085 31052 10137 20915 1863 2017 179085 10745 3761 10745 189830 179085 10745 189830 20915 10745 10170 1255 2018 189830 11390 3986 11390 201220 189830 11390 201220 10170 11390 -1220
Because the earnings from the mutual fund are mostly dividends and capital gains which are very tax efficient
there will be little tax on the earnings - certainly less than half of the tax savings in column D
In this example, I have assumed an interest only HELOC and assumed that you would have paid your regular non-deductible interest which would decrease each year because of the principal being paid down in column K. column M represents HELOC interest
Every one's situation is different. YOUR cash flow will be different. And to escape GARR, you must be making a business decision If you wish to make your mortgage deductible. A perceived increase in earnings from a mutual fund loan would likely be sufficient but there are NO, NONE, NOT ANY Guarantees.
If this situation interests you, you are advised to get a written financial plan from Fred Snyder FIRST - His Number is (604) 731-8900
david ingram, home office phone (604) 980-0321 - Please do NOT phone before 10 AM or after 9 PM but you can phone 7 days a week there are NO message machines - If you do leave a message with a person, If I do not get back in 4 hours, I WILL NOT BE RETURNING the call - I leave it to YOU to follow up. I get over 700 emails a day and my record for phone calls on April 30 2006 was over 140.
I hope the formatting stays with the email. Not sure if this will help or not. What you should do is get Fred Snyder to do a written financial plan for you. see the red a couple of lines up. Every Thursday at 12 noon and 7 PM, Fred Snyder of Dundee Wealth Management presents free Financial Seminars for his clients, potential clients and anyone who phones and asks to attend. THERE is NO CHARGE! (I used to charge up to $999.00 for essentially the same thing) AND - NO ONE'S ARM IS TWISTED TO BUY SOMETHING. They are presented at the Dundee Boardroom (holds about 30 people max) 1764 West 7th Vancouver, BC phone (604) 731-8900 - ask for Freda to register for free. These are genuine educational seminars dealing with everything from how to buy a house to making your mortgage tax deductible to buying an RRSP to alternatives to RRSP accounts to estate planning. So what started as 13 separate seminars has now evolved into 23 separate topics. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO ALL OF THEM. ONE LADY CAME TO 53 separate seminars and her husband came to about 20 with her. If you have a financial consultant, bring them. People have brought their bankers and life insurance agents with them. Take your spouse, your best friend, your son, your daughter, your mother or your worst enemy But do phone 604-731-8900 Fred Snyder also is the host of ITS YOUR MONEY every Sunday morning on CHBD (600 on AM dial) from 9:00 to 10:30. This is a phone in financial show which I appear as a guest on the last Sunday of every month. (Originally I was the co-host but the program is really devoted to BC finances because of BC Securities Legislation and my practice is world wide.) You can listen to 4 weeks back at www.600am.com and listen to the program live around the world every Sunday morning at the same spot. We have taken calls from around the world. In one case, a lady phoned from Florida, got her answer and then asked if I was the David ingram she knew in Regina back in 1959. Small world as they say. Call (604) 280-0600 with your question on Sunday Morning. And as of July 20, 2008, IT'S YOUR MONEY also appears in a different version LIVE on CKNW from 6 PM to 7 PM as a phone in show to answer your questions. Call (604) 280-9898 or 1-877-399-9898 or *9898 on your cell to get your question on the air. Callers to the show are awarded a free written financial plan for the future - be prepared to spend a couple of hours on this. As an aside, I do not do them any more but used to charge up to $3,000 for essentially the same thing in the days before the wonderful computer programs available today to assist. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUGGESTED PRICE GUIDELINES - Aug 5, 2008
david ingram's US / Canada Services US / Canada / Mexico tax, Immigration and working Visa Specialists US / Canada Real Estate Specialists My Home office is at: 4466 Prospect Road North Vancouver, BC, CANADA, V7N 3L7 Cell (604) 657-8451 - (604) 980-0321 Fax (604) 980-0325 Calls welcomed from 10 AM to 9 PM 7 days a week Vancouver (LA) time - (please do not fax or phone outside of those hours as this is a home office) expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax service help. email to taxman at centa.com www.centa.com www.david-ingram.com pert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax service and help. David Ingram gives expert income tax service & immigration help to non-resident Americans & Canadians from New York to California to Mexico family, estate, income trust trusts Cross border, dual citizen - out of country investments are all handled with competence & authority. Phone consultations are $450 for 15 minutes to 50 minutes (professional hour). Please note that GST is added if product remains in Canada or is to be returned to Canada or a phone consultation is in Canada. ($472.50 with GST for in person or if you are on the telephone in Canada) expert US Canada Canadian American Mexican Income Tax service and help. This is not intended to be definitive but in general I am quoting $900 to $3,000 for a dual country tax return. $900 would be one T4 slip one W2 slip one or two interest slips and you lived in one country only (but were filing both countries) - no self employment or rentals or capital gains - you did not move into or out of the country in this year. $1,200 would be the same with one rental $1,300 would be the same with one business no rental $1,300 would be the minimum with a move in or out of the country. These are complicated because of the back and forth foreign tax credits. - The IRS says a foreign tax credit takes 1 hour and 53 minutes. $1,600 would be the minimum with a rental or two in the country you do not live in or a rental and a business and foreign tax credits no move in or out $1,700 would be for two people with income from two countries $3,000 would be all of the above and you moved in and out of the country. This is just a guideline for US / Canadian returns We will still prepare Canadian only (lives in Canada, no US connection period) with two or three slips and no capital gains, etc. for $200.00 up. However, if you have a stack of 1099, or T3 or T4A or T5 or K1 reporting forms, expect to pay an average of $10.00 each with up to $50.00 for a K1 or T5013 or T5008 or T101 --- Income trusts with amounts in box 42 are an even larger problem and will be more expensive. - i.e. 20 information slips will be at least $350.00 With a Rental for $400, two or three rentals for $550 to $700 (i.e. $150 per rental) First year Rental - plus $250. A Business for $400 - Rental and business likely $550 to $700 And an American only (lives in the US with no Canadian income or filing period) with about the same things in the same range with a little bit more if there is a state return. Moving in or out of the country or part year earnings in the US will ALWAYS be $900 and up. TDF 90-22.1 forms are $50 for the first and $25.00 each after that when part of a tax return. 8891 forms are generally $50.00 to $100.00 each. 18 RRSPs would be $900.00 - (maybe amalgamate a couple) Capital gains *sales) are likely $50.00 for the first and $20.00 each after that. Catch - up returns for the US where we use the Canadian return as a guide for seven years at a time will be from $150 to $600.00 per year depending upon numbers of bank accounts, RRSP's, existence of rental houses, self employment, etc. Note that these returns tend to be informational rather than taxable. In fact, if there are children involved, we usually get refunds of $1,000 per child per year for 3 years. We have done several catch-ups where the client has received as much as $6,000 back for an $1,800 bill and one recently with 6 children is resulting in over $12,000 refund. Email and Faxed information is convenient for the sender but very time consuming and hard to keep track of when they come in multiple files. As of May 1, 2008, we will charge or be charging a surcharge for information that comes in more than two files. It can take us a valuable hour or more to try and put together the file when someone sends 10 emails or 15 attachments, etc. We had one return with over 50 faxes and emails for instance. This is a guideline not etched in stone. If you do your own TDF-90 forms, it is to your advantage. However, if we put them in the first year, the computer carries them forward beautifully. --IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, please be advised that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used or relied upon, and cannot be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.-- -Disclaimer: This question has been answered without detailed information or consultation and is to be regarded only as general comment. Nothing in this message is or should be construed as advice in any particular circumstances. No contract exists between the reader and the author and any and all non-contractual duties are expressly denied. All readers should obtain formal advice from a competent and appropriately qualified legal practitioner or tax specialist for expert help, assistance, preparation, or consultation in connection with personal or business affairs such as at www.centa.com or www.garygauvin.com. If you forward this message, this disclaimer must be included." -
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