Investments and taxes as a dual citizen -


Hi David,

If email is not the best method to ask a question, please let me know
other options.

I am interested in using an online US service as a medium to buy US stocks
and enroll in a dividend reinvestment plan (which would be taxed). The
issue is I'm a dual citizen and have lived and worked in Canada all my
life (now 23) so I have not payed any US taxes. I do have all my
documentation though (US passport, SSN). What would be easier and more
productive or maybe more importantly the most legal, to enroll in US
stocks as a Canadian and pay taxes here or to enroll as a US citizen and
pay taxes on the dividends in the US? If I enroll as a US citizen, will
that mean I will open up a world of trouble in terms of the IRS coming
after other income I have from Canadian employment? Basically I am
concerned that if I registered as a US citizen abroad I'll be flagged to
report all my income for tax (eg. taxed by both countries on the same
dollar).

What are you thoughts?

Thanks!!

xxxxxxxx

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david ingram replies:

As a US citizen residing in Canada, you are already required to file a US 1040 and in particular forms TDF 90-22.1 for all accounts if your foreign financial accounts exceed $10,000 US and form 8891 to report your RRSP or RRIF monies and a 3520 if you have an RESP for your children on an annual basis. 

Failure to file form TDF 90-22.1 is now supposed to be a minimum fine of $10,000 and a maximum of $500,000 plus up to 5 years in jail.  Opening a US Brokerage Account would eliminate the possible fines for that account at least.

If you receive US dividends, the maximum tax you are required to pay to the US is 15% and if you receive interest the maximum tax you should pay to the US is 10% under the terms of the US / Canada Income Tax Convention (Treaty).

It is not double taxation although there are some times when a little slips in.  You receive credit on the US return for the taxes paid to Canada and credit on the Canadian return for the taxes paid tot he US.

You should go to www.centa.com and read the Oct 1993 newsletter  on dual citizenship in the top left hand box.  then read the Oct 1995 newsletter which will explain the duties associated with that US passport.  Then read the US/Canada Income Tax section int eh second box down on the right hand side.  Altogether, they will tell you what to do.

Then you should get your 2001 to 2007 tax returns and TDF-90 forms filed before they do catch up to you.  We can help with that if you wish.  If you want to talk to me about it, I charge $472.50 per hour for your kind of situation.  Other pricing will be found further on.

these other answers may help as well

---------------------

 
PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU KNOW WHO IS A US CITIZEN -  IT COULD SAVE THEM A BUNDLE.
 

QUESTION:

I was born to a US father and a Canadian mother in Canada in 1973.  I had only Canadian citizenship until 2001 when I applied for and got US citizenship.  I got a US social insurance number in 2005 and have never worked, lived, or filed a tax return in the United States. Since 2001 I have received an inheritance less than 100K CDN.  In the long-term (or unexpected-immediate) future I will receive another much larger inheritance.  I originally obtained US citizenship for the potential of working there.  I have not done so yet, but would still like to keep the option open but first need to quantify what it could cost me.  Also, I am a highly trained (3 years into my PhD now) engineer and would qualify for a US work visa under NAFTA when I'm done.  Hopefully this background is sufficient for my questions:

1. If the inheritance monies received up until now, since 2001, are less than 100K, do I owe US tax on the inheritance?  My max income in those years was < 70K CDN?
2. If I renounce my US citizenship, how long afterwards will the US claim that I "owe" them tax on any future inheritances?
3. If I renounce my US citizenship, will it be harder for me (and the sponsoring US company) to obtain a work-visa in the future?

 
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david ingram replies:

The good news is that if you come forward with a voluntary disclosure to the USA, there is rarely any tax and can be a refund if there are children involved.

However,

1.    You have been a US citizen since birth.  When you received the actual paperwork, the usual method is to go back six years.  You already owe the US many tens of thousands of dollars on your earned income for failure to file your past due returns.  In addition, if you have a Canadian RRSP and other accounts over $10,000 US total, you are subject to US treasury fines of a minimum of $10,000 to max of $500,000 pr account per year for failure to file form TDF 90-22.1 for each account and 35% of the principal in the RRSP plus 5% per year for each year unreported. The reason that you owe tax to the US is that you have to file the returns to claim foreign tax credits and/or the earned income exemption.  I once had a 105 year old lady fined $10,000 for failure to file her TDF 90 to report her account in the royal Bank of Canada in Edgemont Village in North Vancouver.

There is no tax on an inheritance you received in the past or in the future but the fact that it was put in a bank for even a day makes you liable for the TDF 90-22.1 fines. There may be and would be tax on any interim earnings on the inheritance. 

2.    The US  can tax you for another ten years after renouncing your US citizenship.

3.   If you renounce your US citizenship to avoid filing US income taxes, you are banned from the US for life as signed into law by Pres Clinton on Sept 30, 1996..

This older question will likely assist and, of course, if you decide to bring those returns up to date, you know where we are. 

  

QUESTION:

I have a client who is a US citizen but resides in Canada.  She received a $20,000 dividend from a CCPC (Canadian controlled Private Corporation) in 2006.  What are the US tax issues?

______________________________________________________________
david ingram replies:

The actual amount (not the grossed up amount) is taxable on her US 1040 and is reported on schedule B.  Pay attention to the two bottom questions because she will 'have to' fill in US form T D F 90-22.1 for the account she holds these shares in and any other accounts as well even if there is only a dollar in the account.

If she owns 10% or more of the CCPC (Canadian Controlled Private Corporation), she will also need to deal with form 5471.

Penalties are up to $50,000 a year for not filling in form 5471 and $500,000 plus five years in jail for not filling in the TDF 90-22.1.

Any tax paid to Canada on the dividend can be claimed as a foreign tax credit on US form 1116.


This older answer will likely help.

A question I am hoping you will be able to help us with.
 
My son's fiancée who has been living common law with him for over a year and living in Canada is trying to file her US taxes.  She is in the process of applying for her residence status here, which should come through any time now.  They have "filed" common law status with the Canadian authorities as of March of the past year and the paperwork was filed in May for her Canadian residency.  She has no US income so how does she file her return for 2006 with the US?
 
If you can help us, it certainly would be appreciated.
 
Thank you,
___________________________________________________
david ingram replies:

Well, she could send it all to us and we would do it for her and likely charge $800.00 plus GST.

OR,

If she just has one or two T4 slips from Canada, she can goto
www.centa.com and read the 'US/Canada Taxation' section in the second box down on the right hand side.  She should also read the October 1995 Newsletter which explains the responsibilities of a US citizen living in Canada.  She can find that newsletter in the top left hand box on the same page.

I have reproduced part of it here

 

The U.S. taxes on citizenship first and residency or physical presence second. If you have another tax home, and are just an extensive visitor in the States, you can escape U.S. tax on your income from other countries. However, if you renounce your other tax home or become a "green card" holder or are in the U.S. for more than 183 days in one year or under the substantial presence test,  you are subject to U.S. income tax on your world income.

The U.S. taxes its citizens and green card holders wherever they are and no matter what they are doing. The U.S. taxes its citizens in Canada and they will tax them in the North Sea. The U.S. will add on the benefit of housing allowances, car allowances, servants, and education allowances for people who have not been in the U.S. for twenty years but who are still U.S. citizens.  If you want the benefit of U.S. Citizenship, you pays your taxes.) In 2006, the first $82,400 U.S. of income earned from personal  services (as opposed to capital) is exempt if you have been out of the country for a full calendar year in one test or for 330 out of 365 days in another test using a fiscal year (form 2555).

However, being "exempt" does NOT mean that you do not have to file a tax return. You must still file your U.S. 1040, report the Canadian Earnings in U.S. dollars and claim the "up to $82,400 U.S." by filing a form 2555 with the 1040. If you have investment, [INCLUDING AMOUNTS EARNED WITHIN YOUR CANADIAN RRSP], rental, royalty, or any income other than from services, you must also report the income in U.S. dollars.  Since you will have paid tax to Canada first, you will file a Form 1116 with the 1040 to claim your foreign tax credit. A separate Form 1116 must be filed for each kind of income, i.e. rental, pension, dividends, etc.

The RRSP earnings may be exempted under ARTICLE XXIX.5 of the U.S. / CANADA Income Tax Treaty 1980 - file form 8891.

Social security (FICA) taxes usually do not have to be paid to the U.S. under Article XXIX.4 of the U.S./CANADA Income Tax treaty or Article V of the CANADA / U.S. Social Security Agreement.  (I sure hope all this is impressing you).

Therefore, a U.S. citizen living in Canada who had a rental house, a job, an RRSP, some dividends and some capital gains from the sale of stock would file his or her Canadian return first and then file a U.S. return with these forms:

* 1040 - is the basic return for a citizen or resident of the U.S. or landed immigrant of the U.S. (commonly called a "green card" holder).

* Schedule A - to claim itemized deductions if needed

* Schedule B - to report the dividend income

* Schedule D - to report the capital gains

* Schedule E - to report the rental income

* 4562 - to report depreciation on the rental house

* 1116 - (maybe two foreign tax credit forms) - one for any income from services over $82,400 - one for the rental, capital gains, and dividend income and another for the wages.

* 1116(AMT) - two more forms to calculate the foreign tax credit for Alternative Minimum Tax purposes (AMT)

* 2555 - to exempt up to $82,400 (2006) U.S. of earnings from services - Note that this ran from $70,000 to $80,000 before.

* 6251 - Alternative Minimum tax form

* 1161 AMT - AMT foreign tax credit

* FICA (Social Security) exemption - to exempt income from U.S. FICA

* 8891 - RRSP election forms to exempt income earned within the RRSP from current U.S. income tax until withdrawal

* TDF 90-22.1 form(s) - to report foreign bank accounts including Canadian RRSP accounts which are considered "foreign trusts" - failure to file this form can result in up  to a $500,000 fine PLUS up to five years in jail

He or she might also have to file either of the following two specialty forms when he or she owns shares in corporations.

* 5471 form - If you are a U.S. citizen and 10% or more owner of a Canadian corporation. Failure to file this form can create fines of $10,000 every 30 days up to $50,000

* 5472 form - If you are a Canadian who owns a U.S. corporation - failure to file this one has fines of up to $30,000 every 30 days.

We, of course are happy to help with these filing requirements.
--------------------------

 
This is not the result of a question but is the result of an IRS Tele-conference on June 20, 2007. 

The subject was the reporting of foreign bank on form T D F 90-22.1.

In particular, the tele-conference made the point that  June 30th  "IS" the deadline and that fines are being increased and in particular, there are / will be severe penalties for non-compliance.

It would seem that there is NOW a $10,000 penalty for failure to file the form although that is in the regulations and not on the form.


I know from other sources that some 1,000 clients of former advisor Jerome Schneider are in the process of  being fined as I write this.

I also admit that I have not worried much about the June 30th filing date in the past.

However, the teleconference made the point that practitioners are subject to fine for not following up on these filings.

As I write this Terry or Phyllis ?? is making it very clear that RRSP accounts must be reported but that the Company Pension does not have to be reported.

So--- if you have not being reporting your foreign accounts - report now.

AND, they also made the point that everyone with foreign accounts MUST file schedule B, even if there is no earnings form the accounts.

AND, they also made the closing  remark that if they have NOT been filed in the past, taxpayers should file back SIX years.

.
david ingram
-----------------------------
QUESTION:

I would like to put some money away for retirement. I'm a 
U.S. citizen living in Canada for the near future, but I know 
I'll be living in the U.S. again before I retire. Should I put my money in an RRSP or an IRA?

-----------------------------------------
david ingram replies;

This would be a great question for the Sunday morning radio program on CKBD 600AM  from 9:00 AM to 10:30 AM.

The answer,though, is that you would likely be better putting after tax dollars down on your mortgage if you have one.  Other than that, you can only buy an RRSP for a tax deduction.  Of course, you then have to make sure that you fill in forms TDF 90-22.1 and 8891 as follows:

The following question deals with a US resident but you have to fill in the same forms living in Canada - failure to file them can mean big big big penalties.

TDF 90 rules here 8891 rules follow


I am a Canadian citizen and legal US resident. I've lived in Florida for 25 years and now, at 65, I'm considering taking distributions from a spousal RRSP with Royal Bank.
 
Unfortunately, income tax information I've received from different sources is terribly conflicting and, at worst, indicates that my nest egg will be gobbled up by governments. Is this something you can steer me straight on?


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david ingram replies:

If you roll the RRSP into an RRIF (Registered retirement investment Fund), The payer will have to deduct 15% non resident withholding tax under the terms of Article XVIII of the US . Canada Income Tax Convention (Treaty).

You will then report it again on form 8891 of your 1040 and there may or may not be US tax to pay.  If your income is high enough that you are in a federal 28% tax rate, there 'will' be tax to pay on the RRIF. 


You will claim the 15% tax paid to Canada on US form 1116.
---------------------------------------
Now, you have been supposed to report the existence of that account to the Department of the Treasury in Detroit on form TDF 90-22.1 since 1989 when that law was passed and shown in bulletin 89-45.  Failure to report can be a penalty of a minimum of $10,000 to a maximum of $500,000 PLUS up to 5 years in jail for each year you did not report it.  See the bottom question on schedule B of your 1040 where your foreign trust requires the preparing and filing of a 3520.

Thankfully, you do NOT have to do a 3520.  the 8891 takes it place and is much easier.

The penalty for not also reporting the RRSP and its internal earnings to the IRS (it was the Dept of Treasury above)  is 35% of the principal plus 5% for each year it was not reported since 1989 when the reporting rules started.  The form 8891 is an exemption for paying the tax on those internal earnings.

See form 8891 at:  http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8891.pdf

RELIEF

Although I know of over 1,000 people who have paid $10,000 fines for not filing form TDF 90-22.1, I (at this time) do not know personally of a single individual who has been fined under the 8891 / 3520 rules.  I also have NEVER seen a person fined for filing the TDF 90-22.1 forms late and voluntarily.

In my opinion, you should file the TDF 90-22.1 forms retroactively for six years.to the Department of the Treasury.

See Form TDF 90-22.1 at http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf Note the penalty of up to $500,000 plus five years in jail for failure to file.  The minimum fine is now $10,000.
 
You should file retroactive 8891 forms with a 1040X to the IRS for the same years.  Note that you are the BENEFICIARY so follow the Beneficiary rules.  The 8891 form is actually only 3 years old.  Before that, you just wrote out the information on a free form page but it is a convenient form to use retroactively.

Hope this helps and we would be glad to assist if needed.



If you are in the lower mainland, this will be of interest

Every Thursday at 12 noon and 7 PM, Fred Snyder of Dundeee Wealth Management
presents free Financial Seminars for his clients, potential clients and anyone who phones and asks to attend.


THERE is NO CHARGE!  (I used to charge up to $999.00 for essentially the same thing)
AND - NO ONE'S ARM IS TWISTED TO BUY SOMETHING.

They are presented at the Dundee Boardroom (holds about 30 people max)

1764 West 7th
Vancouver, BC

phone (604) 731-8900 - ask for Freda to register for free.

These are genuine educational seminars dealing with everything from how to buy a house to making your mortgage tax deductible to buying an RRSP to alternatives to RRSP accounts to estate planning.  What  started as 13 separate seminars has now evolved into 23 separate topics.

IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO ALL OF THEM.
ONE LADY CAME TO 53 separate seminars and her husband came to about 20 with her.

If you have a financial consultant, bring them.  People have brought their bankers and life insurance agents with them.

Take your spouse, your best friend, your son, your daughter, your mother or your worst enemy But do phone 604-731-8900

Fred Snyder  also is the host of ITS YOUR MONEY every Sunday morning on CKBD 600AM  (600 on AM dial)  from 9:00 to 10:30.  This is a phone in financial show which I appear as a guest on most Sundays (when I get up).  (Originally I was the co-host but the program is really devoted to BC finances because of BC Securities Legislation and my practice is world wide.)  You can listen to 4 weeks back at www.600am.com and listen to the program live around the world every Sunday morning at the same spot.  We have taken calls from around the world.  In one case, a lady phoned from Florida, got her answer and then asked if I was the David ingram she knew in Regina back in 1959.  Small world as they say.

Call (604) 280-0600 with your question on Sunday Morning.

On February 11, 2008, David Ingram wrote:

It is very unlikely that blind or unexpected email to me will be answered.  I receive anywhere from 100 to 700  unsolicited emails a day and usually answer anywhere from 2 to 20 if they are not from existing clients.  Existing clients are advised to put their 'name and PAYING CUSTOMER' in the subject line and get answered first.  I also refuse to be a slave to email and do not look at it every day and have never ever looked at it when I am out of town. 
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However, I regularly search for the words"PAYING CUSTOMER" and always answer them first if they did not get spammed out. For the last two weeks, I have just found out that my own email notes to myself have been spammed out and as an example, as I wrote this on Dec 25, 2007 since June 16th, my 'spammed out' box has 47,941 unread messages, my deleted box has 16645 I have actually looked at and deleted and I have actually answered 1234 email questions for clients and strangers without sending a bill.  I have also put aside 847 messages that I am maybe going to try and answer because they look interesting. -e bankruptcy expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax service and  help
Therefore, if an email is not answered in 24 to 48 hours, it is likely lost in space.  You can try and resend it but if important AND YOU TRULY WANT OR NEED AN ANSWER from 'me', you will have to phone to make an appointment.  Gillian Bryan generally accepts appointment requests for me between 10:30 AM and 4:00 PM Monday to Friday VANCOUVER (Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles) time at (604) 980-0321.  david ingram expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service and help.
david ingram's US / Canada Services
US / Canada / Mexico tax, Immigration and working Visa Specialists
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My Home office is at:
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North Vancouver,  BC, CANADA, V7N 3L7
Cell (604) 657-8451 -
(604) 980-0321 Fax (604) 980-0325

Calls welcomed from 10 AM to 9 PM 7 days a week  Vancouver (LA) time -  (please do not fax or phone outside of those hours as this is a home office) expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service help.
 
Disclaimer:  This question has been answered without detailed information or consultation and is to be regarded only as general comment.   Nothing in this message is or should be construed as advice in any particular circumstances. No contract exists between the reader and the author and any and all non-contractual duties are expressly denied. All readers should obtain formal advice from a competent and appropriately qualified legal practitioner or tax specialist for expert help, assistance, preparation, or consultation  in connection with personal or business affairs such as at www.centa.com. If you forward this message, this disclaimer must be included." e bankruptcy expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service and help.
David Ingram gives expert income tax service & immigration help to non-resident Americans & Canadians from New York to California to Mexico  family, estate, income trust trusts Cross border, dual citizen - out of country investments are all handled with competence & authority.
 
Phone consultations are $450 for 15 minutes to 50 minutes (professional hour). Please note that GST is added if product remains in Canada or is to be returned to Canada or a phone consultation is in Canada. ($472.50 with GST if in Canada) expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service and help.
This is not intended to be definitive but in general I am quoting $900 to $3,000 for a dual country tax return.
$900 would be one T4 slip one W2 slip one or two interest slips and you lived in one country only (but were filing both countries) - no self employment or rentals or capital gains - you did not move into or out of the country in this year.
 
$1,200 would be the same with one rental
 
$1,300 would be the same with one business no rental
 
$1,300 would be the minimum with a move in or out of the country. These are complicated because of the back and forth foreign tax credits. - The IRS says a foreign tax credit takes 1 hour and 53 minutes.
 
$1,600 would be the minimum with a rental or two in the country you do not live in or a rental and a business and foreign tax credits  no move in or out

$1,700 would be for two people with income from two countries

$3,000 would be all of the above and you moved in and out of the country.
 
This is just a guideline for US / Canadian returns
 
We will still prepare Canadian only (lives in Canada, no US connection period) with two or three slips and no capital gains, etc. for $200.00 up.
 
With a Rental for $400, two or three rentals for $550 to $700 (i.e. $150 per rental) First year Rental - plus $250.
 
A Business for $400 - Rental and business likely $550 to $700
 
And an American only (lives in the US with no Canadian income or filing period) with about the same things in the same range with a little bit more if there is a state return.
 
Moving in or out of the country or part year earnings in the US will ALWAYS be $900 and up.
 
TDF 90-22.1 forms are $50 for the first and $25.00 each after that when part of a tax return.
 
8891 forms are generally $50.00 to $100.00 each.
 
18 RRSPs would be $900.00 - (maybe amalgamate a couple)
 
Capital gains *sales)  are likely $50.00 for the first and $20.00 each after that.

Catch - up returns for the US where we use the Canadian return as a guide for seven years at a time will be from $150 to $600.00 per year depending upon numbers of bank accounts, RRSP's, existence of rental houses, self employment, etc. Note that these returns tend to be informational rather than taxable.  In fact, if there are children involved, we usually get refunds of $1,000 per child per year for 3 years.  We have done several catch-ups where the client has received as much as $6,000 back for an $1,800 bill and one recently with 6 children is resulting in over $12,000 refund. 

This is a guideline not etched in stone.  If you do your own TDF-90 forms, it is to your advantage. However, if we put them in the first year, the computer carries them forward beautifully.
 
This from "ask an income trusts tax service and immigration expert" from www.centa.com or www.jurock.com or www.featureweb.com. David Ingram deals on a daily basis with expatriate tax returns with multi jurisdictional cross and trans border expatriate problems  for the United States, Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, United Kingdom, Kuwait, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, China, New Zealand, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Russia, Georgia, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Scotland, Ireland, Hawaii, Florida, Montana, Morocco, Israel, Iraq, Iran, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mali, Bangkok, Greenland, Iceland, Cuba, Bahamas, Bermuda, Barbados, St Vincent, Grenada,, Virgin Islands, US, UK, GB, and any of the 43 states with state tax returns, etc. Rockwall, Dallas, San Antonio Houston, Denmark, Finland, Sweden Norway Bulgaria Croatia Income Tax and Immigration Tips, Income Tax  Immigration Wizard Antarctica Rwanda Guru  Consultant Specialist Section 216(4) 216(1) NR6 NR-6 NR 6 Non-Resident Real Estate tax specialist expert preparer expatriate anti money laundering money seasoning FINTRAC E677 E667 105 106 TDF-90 Reporting $10,000 cross border transactions Grand Cayman Aruba Zimbabwe South Africa Namibia help USA US Income Tax Convention. Advice on bankruptcy  e bankruptcy expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax service and help .

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