8891 /TDF 90-22.1 - Expert Income Tax help on cross Border tax and immigration and divorce and RRSP and IRA and other matters

8891 /TDF 90-22.1 - Expert Income Tax help on cross Border tax and immigration and divorce and RRSP and IRA and other matters with david Ingram, Tax Consultant and Preparer



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XXXX on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 at 18:43:33

My_question_is: Both

question: hello, my accountant did not mention form td 9022 in 2007 but filed it for me in 2008, why wouldnt they mention it, are they liable in anyway? should i send it in for 2007 even though it is late? also i got h&r block to do my taxes in florida for 2009, and they say i donot need form 8891, even though the last two years i had it for rrsps in canada,i have not added to these or taking them out or transferred them, do i still need form 8891, they say i dont have canadian income or canadian tax obligation, so i dont but i am trying to tell them i need to report my rrsps every year, i dont understand how no one here in florida seems to know how to do us/canadian taxes, do you know anyone here in miami that can help me or do you prepare taxes, can i get an extension or amend these if they are wrong?


david ingram replies:

If a tax consultant reads the directions for Schedule B carefully, they will see that they have to fill in Schedule B  if the taxpayer has  "any" foreign financial accounts.  Question 7 at the bottom then asks specifics.  If the total of all  the  foreign accounts, the taxpayer has signing authority over is $10,000 US or over, you must answer YES to question 7.  If the total is less than $10,000, the answer is no.

However, Question 8 asks about foreign trusts.  A Canadian RRSP, A Canadian RRIF, A Canadian RESP or a Canadian TFSA are Canadian Trust Accounts and therefore they are FOREIGN Trusts for US / IRS purposes. 

The failure to fill in Schedule B and answer yes or no when you have a foreign account of any kind is eligible for a $10,000 penalty. If you have more than $10,000, failure to fill out Form TDF 90-22.1 is a minimum penalty of $10,000 and a maximum of up to $500,000 PLUS up to Five years in Jail.

I saw my first $10,000 penalty in 1995 and it was levied against a 105 year old woman with $38,000 in the Royal Bank of Canada in Edgemont Village in North Vancouver. I have met and knew 60 year old Jerome Schneider who plea bargained for a $100,000 penalty and 6 months in Jail and he served every second plus some more.  The last person I saw was a 70+ woman with a $50,000 fine and that was last week.  Over 1070 clients of Jerome Schneider were then fined $10,000 to $100,000 (with most of them $100,000) because Jerome was also a tax accountant who helped his clients hide money offshore.

Of course you also need to fill in form 8891 for each one of your RRSP accounts (as well as A TDF 90-22.1 IF OVER $10,000).

The penalty for failure to fill in the 8891 which is a substitute for the 3520 is 35% of the amount of money in the account plus 5% for each month you did not file it up to a max of 5 months and a maximum 60% penalty.  Of course, if you had a $100,000, the penalty of $60,000 plus the tax would not leave you with much left.


And to be honest, as of this date, april 14, 2010, I have never personally met or talked to anyone penalized the 60% or 45%.  Of course, a very few years ago, I had never met anyone fined $10,000 or $100,000 and sent to jail for failing to file the TDF 90-22.1 and now I know several and know of hundreds and just two years ago, I had never had anyone fined 42,500 for filing forms T1161 or T1135 or T2062 late in Canada and now I know a dozen.

See the manager of the H & R Block office and complain loudly.  It will do them good.

You should file the TDF 90-22.1 forms for 2007 and  2009.

Now,  The 8891 is clearly part of the return and the failure to file the 8891 forms is serious. 

There is no actual relation between the TDF 90-22.1 forms and the filing of the income tax return.  they do NOT go with the return.  they do not have the same filing deadline.  They do not even go to the IRS, they are sent to the Department of the  Treasury  in Detroit and have to be there by June 20th.

A lot of our clients prepare their own TDF 90-22.1 forms rather than pay us to do them because they are basically a very simple form to fill out.

We do provide them with a batch of preprinted forms with their name on them and they can fill out the details.

And we DO make sure that they are told in no uncertain terms that they (the TDF 90-22.forms) need to be filed.

Following is an example of some of the people who have been fined and jailed and put on probation publicly.  Most people do NOT make the courts because they do not fight what is in essence a very expensive parking ticket.

i.e.  If you have the account or accounts and did not report them, YOU can be fined.  And remember, most RRSP accounts require BOTH an 8891 AND a TDF 90-22.1.

And, if you have a TFSA or RESP, you need to file the dreaded 3520.

And, of course, if you want to send things here, we do provide a mail in service.  I will also take this moment to tell about 40 of our mail in returns and  even a couple that came to the door that we will NOT get them out by April 15th and are filing 4868 US extension forms which means that the returns are not due until Oct 15th but any monies owing are due on April 15th so we want to get them out as soon as possible.  since the Canadian Employee deadline is then April 30th, our resources switch to Canada for two weeks and then back to US returns for the April 15th returns with tax owing and then to the the June 15th deadline for Americans living out of the country and then to the June 15th deadline fro self-employed Canadians and then the June 30th Deadline for NON-Residents with Canadian rental property and then possibly helping people with their June 30th

The following cases involve the rather public UBS situation and most were over $2,000,000.  However, I personally know of hundreds that were fined over failure to report accounts as small as $38,000 and the accounts were in the Bahamas, Canada, Grand Caymans and another dozen countries.

If you are not comfortable, file the 4868 extension form and send it here.


If your question was not answered fully or you wish to go further, I am available for individual consultations by phone or email or in person for $450 per professional hour. 

Please also note that we prepare Canadian, US, Australian, UK and New Zealand returns on a mail in, email, fax, snail mail or couriered basis. At any time, our clients are in 40 countries or more.  They have every occupation from nuclear Submarine captains to FedEx pilots to Major Bank officers to Politicians, Diplomats and border patrol officers.  My favourite, however, is a penguin catcher in Antarctica among others there..

If you 'really' only have a single question requiring a 'couple' of minutes, you can try phoning me for free as part of the following.

- For a quick free question

You might try calling Fred Snyder's radio program for an answer on a Sunday Morning.. 

Fred Snyder's  "IT'S YOUR MONEY" radio show. on CISL,  650 AM on the dial in Vancouver from 9 to 11:00 AM every Sunday  (604) 280-0650 or (877) 280-0650 - You can listen live from anywhere in the world at www.am650radio.com from anywhere in the world. click on the button in the top left hand corner.
You might try calling Fred Snyder's weekly radio programs for an answer. 
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Disclaimer:  This question has been answered without detailed information or consultation and is to be regarded only as general comment.   Nothing in this message is or should be construed as advice in any particular circumstances. No contract exists between the reader and the author and any and all non-contractual duties are expressly denied. All readers should obtain formal advice from a competent and appropriately qualified legal practitioner or tax specialist for expert help, assistance, preparation, or consultation  in connection with personal or business affairs such as at www.centa.com or www.garygauvin.com.  If you forward this message, this disclaimer must be included."

david ingram's US / Canada Services
US / Canada / Mexico tax, Immigration and working Visa Specialists
US / Canada Real Estate Specialists
My Home office is at:
4466 Prospect Road
North Vancouver,  BC, CANADA, V7N 3L7
Cell (604) 657-8451 -
(604) 980-0321 Fax (604) 980-0325

Calls welcomed from 10 AM to 9 PM 7 days a week  Vancouver (LA) time -  (please do not fax or phone outside of those hours as this is a home office) expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service help.
pert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service and help.
David Ingram gives expert income tax service & immigration help to non-resident Americans & Canadians from New York to California to Mexico  family, estate, income trust trusts Cross border, dual citizen - out of country investments are all handled with competence & authority.


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Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21 2010 @ 09:32 AM PDT Enquiry

I'm a new immigrant in Canada, and I just worked for about a month in December 2009. I would like to find out what are the things I need to know to file tax returns. I was resident in Singapore. Should my wife who is currently not employed also file tax returns?

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