Dual residency between (PR Card) and the USA (Green or Resident Alien) -

My_question_is: Both

question: Hi,
It's a question regarding dual reidency statsu fp my parents. They have
had both the Canadian PR and US GC for over 5 years now. They were first
advice of giving up one residency back in 2003. Since 2003, they have been
in and out of Canada through US-Canada borders numerous times without any
problem. Lately since past January 2009, they have been told again to give
up Canadian PR. I have few question around this situation.
1. Can the immigration Canada force my parents to do this? considering
they have 5 children 5 Grand Children living here. 4 of my sisters were
my dad's dependent when I sponsored them
2. Last time around I crossed the border with them and we were told next
time to either give it up or bring evidence of residency like airplane tickets,
bank statements, tax or proof of ownership (property). Can we establish
residential ties to Canada without being here physically?
3. Can we apply for their Citizenship? After 7 years it is impossible for
them to do the 3 out of 4 year requirement due to my family situation. One
of my brothers is developmentally challenged and has been for last 36 years.
My parents are 72 & 60 and it is getting very difficult for them to travel
back and forth. This the major reason we have the US Green Card so that we
can get him in North America otherwise I would have to take care of him and
possibly go live abroad to support him.
4. Can I apply for my brother to be considered for immigration? He is
physically OK but he is far below his age when it comes to mental abilities.
Or is it possible to have immigration Canada open the old case where he was
deemed not dependent.Thanks
david ingram replies:

1.    To keep a Canadian PR card alive, your parents MUST be physically IN CANADA 24 out of 60 months.  Having an address, or a phone or owning a $5,000,000 piece of property or having 5 kids and 5 grandkids does not make them a resident of  Canada. 

If they are not or have not been or are NOT able to prove that 24 out of 60 months presence, their PR cards will be confiscated or at least not renewed.

An exception would be if either of them were working for a Canadian Company outside of Canada during that time. 

2.   That advice is logical.  They should be able to prove they live in Canada or are physically present here 24 out of 60 months to remain a PR of Canada..

From you r email address, I think you live in Ontario and Ontario is unusual in that it 'is' possible to live in Ontario for 15/154 days a year and qualify to keep both the PR card alive AND be qualified for Ontario Medical.    In this manner, A PR card AND a green card in the States can be kept alive because the other part of the equation is that to keep your green card alive, you (or they) must be in the US more than 183 days.  So 160 days a year in Ontario qualifies for the PR AND MEDICAL CARD - the other 205 days in the US keeps the Green card alive.  But spending (on average) 150 days in Ontario, 180 days in the USA and 35 days in England and NOTHING would be valid and all could be taken away.  If the province your parents are involved in is any other than Ontario, they can still spend the 24 months in Canada and the rest in the States and keep the green and PR cards alive but DO NOT qualify for any Canadian medical plans.

However, the USA DOES have a method of leaving the USA for a while.  Your parents could fill in US form I-131 (before moving to Canada).  When it has been approved, they could move to Canada for 3 years (or as many days as necessary to make up the 1095 out of 1460), get their Canadian citizenship and THEN move back to the USA with valid green cards.  If they chose this method, the 131 form needs to be filed every year they are gone.

Every other province and territory in Canada requires you to be physically sleeping in that jurisdiction fir more than 183 days.  It is therefore impossible to keep a green card and a PR card AND a Canadian health card alive in any province but Ontario.

3. If they are not in Canada for 3 out of 4 years (1095 days out of 1460) and able to prove it, they do NOT qualify for Canadian citizenship.

4.   You can always apply but will likely fail in an attempt to sponsor your brother.  This is particularly true if he was your parents' dependent when they applied for their PR cards and did not include him as a dependent.  In that case, the person who was not included is  usually inadmissible, even if in 'good' health.

Your mother and father should not have or be using Ontario medical if they have not been in the Province of Ontario for 153 days a year.  To do so would be a fraud.

david ingram's US / Canada Services
US / Canada / Mexico tax, Immigration and working Visa Specialists
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pert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service and help.
David Ingram gives expert income tax service & immigration help to non-resident Americans & Canadians from New York to California to Mexico  family, estate, income trust trusts Cross border, dual citizen - out of country investments are all handled with competence & authority.
Phone consultations are $450 for 15 minutes to 50 minutes (professional hour). Please note that GST is added if product remains in Canada or is to be returned to Canada or a phone consultation is in Canada. ($472.50 with GST for in person or if you are on the telephone in Canada) expert  US Canada Canadian American  Mexican Income Tax  service and help.
This is not intended to be definitive but in general I am quoting $900 to $3,000 for a dual country tax return.

$900 would be one T4 slip one W2 slip one or two interest slips and you lived in one country only (but were filing both countries) - no self employment or rentals or capital gains - you did not move into or out of the country in this year.
$1,200 would be the same with one rental
$1,300 would be the same with one business no rental
$1,300 would be the minimum with a move in or out of the country. These are complicated because of the back and forth foreign tax credits. - The IRS says a foreign tax credit takes 1 hour and 53 minutes.
$1,600 would be the minimum with a rental or two in the country you do not live in or a rental and a business and foreign tax credits  no move in or out

$1,700 would be for two people with income from two countries

$3,000 would be all of the above and you moved in and out of the country.
This is just a guideline for US / Canadian returns
We will still prepare Canadian only (lives in Canada, no US connection period) with two or three slips and no capital gains, etc. for $200.00 up. However, if you have a stack of 1099, or T3 or T4A or T5 or K1 reporting forms, expect to pay an average of $10.00 each with up to $50.00 for a K1 or T5013 or T5008 or T101 --- Income trusts with amounts in box 42 are an even larger problem and will be more expensive. - i.e. 20 information slips will be at least $350.00
With a Rental for $400, two or three rentals for $550 to $700 (i.e. $150 per rental) First year Rental - plus $250.
A Business for $400 - Rental and business likely $550 to $700
And an American only (lives in the US with no Canadian income or filing period) with about the same things in the same range with a little bit more if there is a state return.
Moving in or out of the country or part year earnings in the US will ALWAYS be $900 and up.
TDF 90-22.1 forms are $50 for the first and $25.00 each after that when part of a tax return.
8891 forms are generally $50.00 to $100.00 each.
18 RRSPs would be $900.00 - (maybe amalgamate a couple)
Capital gains *sales)  are likely $50.00 for the first and $20.00 each after that.

Catch - up returns for the US where we use the Canadian return as a guide for seven years at a time will be from $150 to $600.00 per year depending upon numbers of bank accounts, RRSP's, existence of rental houses, self employment, etc. Note that these returns tend to be informational rather than taxable.  In fact, if there are children involved, we usually get refunds of $1,000 per child per year for 3 years.  We have done several catch-ups where the client has received as much as $6,000 back for an $1,800 bill and one recently with 6 children is resulting in over $12,000 refund. 

Email and Faxed information is convenient for the sender but very time consuming and hard to keep track of when they come in multiple files.  As of May 1, 2008, we will charge or be charging a surcharge for information that comes in more than two files.  It can take us a valuable hour or more  to try and put together the file when someone sends 10 emails or 15 attachments, etc. We had one return with over 50 faxes and emails for instance. 

This is a guideline not etched in stone.  If you do your own TDF-90 forms, it is to your advantage. However, if we put them in the first year, the computer carries them forward beautifully.

IRS Circular 230 Disclosure:  To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, please be advised that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used or relied upon, and cannot be used or relied upon, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code, or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.--

Disclaimer:  This question has been answered without detailed information or consultation and is to be regarded only as general comment.   Nothing in this message is or should be construed as advice in any particular circumstances. No contract exists between the reader and the author and any and all non-contractual duties are expressly denied. All readers should obtain formal advice from a competent and appropriately qualified legal practitioner or tax specialist for expert help, assistance, preparation, or consultation  in connection with personal or business affairs such as at www.centa.com or www.garygauvin.com.  If you forward this message, this disclaimer must be included." -


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