Transferring money between and US - E667 E677 104 105 - FINTRAC - FINCEN -
QUESTION:
I saw your recent email answer about reporting moneies transferred between Canada and US. I am in almost a similar situation. However, if I still have a Canadian bank account (which I report on the TDF form), would I need to report a one time transfer of over $15K if I just wrote a check from my Canadian account and deposited into my US account? And if I do need to report it what form and where would I report this transfer to?
=---------------------
I have had 4 enquiries by email and one by phone today about this topic. It seems that everyone is loading up on cash to go down tot he US to buy a car with the great sale prices there.
In your case, if you just write a cheque, the Canadian bank will fillout Canadian FINTRAC form E667 and the US bank will fill out form FINCEN104 and you do not need to do anything.
Everyone is getting the following which should help
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David:
Taking money across the border to buy a car is an interesting experience. The last time I did it, I handed the form in to the US person at the border and he looked at it and said "it's wrong", go inside.
So in I went and it was wrong.
I was going down to buy a used cadillac and had $15,000 US with me and had declared it.
Unfortunately, I also had some Canadian money with me and had neglected to include it. The border guard looked at the $15,000 US and instinctively knew i had some Canasdian cash as well and the inside fellow gave me royal hell for not declaring "everything"
The US forms eventually go to Detroit and the Canadian forms go to FINTRAC in Ottawa. However, YOU hand them in at the border.
FINTRAC
24th floor, 234 Laurier Avenue West
Ottawa, ON
K1P 1H7
CANADA
Email
[email protected]
Telephone
1-866-346-8722 (toll free)
Facsimile
(613) 943-7931
This older Q & A will give you the forms needed:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I just saw a question you answered about a Canadian living in the
US as a permanent resident selling a home and wanting to transfer the money to a
US bank. (
http://www.david-ingram.com/CEN-TAPEDE/archive/Week-of-Mon-20061009/002904.html) I'm
in the same situation, except I want to keep most of the money in Canada. You
said, below, that the banks will notify the treasury on amounts over $10,000. Is
this $10,000 at any one time, or per calendar year?
What I want to do is bring enough money to pay off my US credit
cards. Through several bank withdrawals and cheque deposits I've already put
about $9600 Canadian into my US bank (not at the same time) to pay bills. Do I
need to wait until next year to bring more in, or is it okay to continue
doing this? I would need maybe another $11,000 to pay everything off here.
Thanks!
david ingram replies:
If you have transferred $9,600 so far and have paid it out already, there is no problem. If you are transferring smaller amounts because you are trying to amass an amount over $10,000 for a single purpose, then you have to report the transfer of more than $10,000 AND the financial institution you have transferred the money to in the USA should be reporting the transaction as well. In fact making several transfers for a total of $12,000 could make you look like a suspicous person whereas one $15,000 transfer would never raise a suspicious person report, especially if the money was then paid out to credit card companies.
The rules for reporting take place for both countries when there is a transfer (or series of transfers) of more than $10,000.
If you do it as a bank transfer, you do not need to worry. The bank will do the reporting for you.
If you take cash out in Caanda and take it across the border yourself, YOU have to do the reporting to both countries.
This older series of questions will help
This last question just
gave me an idea for a new question:
What if I bring say $15
000 US into Canada but I do it at several trips and
every time I carry less then $10 000 (3000-5000)? Any forms to fill or
report? Thanks.
every time I carry less then $10 000 (3000-5000)? Any forms to fill or
report? Thanks.
PxXXXX
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
david ingram
replies:
Both countries make the
transportation of more than $10,000 in pieces a crime as
well.
However, if you were
sending a $1,000 a month to a savings plan or something, that would not
matter.
The crime would be trying
to assemble the more than $10,000 in the other country when you had the ability
to send it all at once.
I.E. You have
$25,000 in a bank in Seattle and send $5,000 every couple of days until it is
all in Canada.
In that case, if your
banks spotted what was going on, "they" would report
you.
The bank will also report
when several cheques arrive from different sources and they add up to
significant amounts whether the source is from the US or not. This is to
stop people from keeping their money in other people's accounts and assembling
it when they need it.
All part of anti money
laundering legislation.
=============
the original question and
answer follows
What forms do I have to
fill out if I am transporting more than $10,000 across the Canadian
Border
==============================
david ingram
replies: The forms are E677 and E667 for Canada and as of September
1, 2004 )today) 104 and 105 for the US if you are bringing the money out
of the US into Canada..
The US bank will
report the deposit or withdrawal to the US FINCEN on form 104 which
you can find at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc104.pdf
When you then move
the money to Canada by money order or check, the bank or financial institution
will report it again.
The US penalties for failure to fill in these simple forms is up to
$500,000 PLUS 5 years in jail.
If you remove more
than $10,000 at any one time, the bank will report those transactions as
well.
If you decide to
carry the cash or transport it out of the USA as a cashier's cheque, you have to
file form 105. You can find the form at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc105.pdf
Canada has moved its forms
in the last few days and I had a devil of a time trying to find them. You
can find both E677 and E667
below.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e667/e667-fill-06b.pdf
The E667 is filled out by the Bank or financial institution and you do not usually see it.
The following E677 is filled in by yourself and handed in at the airport OR LAND BORDER to CANADIAN CUSTOMS AS YOU LEAVE OR AS YOU ENTER
It is very unlikely that blind or unexpected email to me
will be answered. I receive anywhere from 100 to 700 unsolicited
emails a day and usually answer anywhere from 2 to 20 if they are not from
existing clients. Existing clients are advised to put their 'name and
PAYING CUSTOMER' in the subject and get answered first. I also refuse to
be a slave to email and do not look at it every day and have never ever looked
at it when i am out of town. expert US Canada Canadian
American Mexican Income Tax
help
Therefore, if an email is not answered in 24 to 36 hours,
it is lost in space. You can try and resend it but if important, you will
have to phone to make an appointment. Gillian Bryan generally accepts
appointment requests for me between 10:30 AM and 4:00 PM Monday to Friday
VANCOUVER (Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles) time at (604) 980-0321.
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This is not intended to be definitive but in
general I am quoting $800 to $2,800 for a dual country tax
return.
$800 would be one T4 slip one W2 slip one or
two interest slips and you lived in one country only - no self employment or
rentals or capital gains - you did not move into or out of the country in this
year.
$1,000 would be the same with one rental
$1,200 would be the same with one business no
rental
$1,200 would be the minimum with a move in or
out of the country. These are complicated because of the back and forth foreign
tax credits. - The IRS says a foreign tax credit takes 1 hour and 53
minutes.
$1,500 would be the minimum with a rental or
two in the country you do not live in or a rental and a business and foreign tax
credits no move in or out
$1,600 would be for two people with income from two countries
$2,800 would be all of the above and you moved
in and out of the country.
This is just a guideline for US / Canadian
returns
We will still prepare Canadian only
(lives in Canada, no US connection period) with two or three slips and no
capital gains, etc. for $150.00 up.
With a Rental for $350
A Business for $350 - Rental and business
likely $450
And an American only (lives in the US with no
Canadian income or filing period) with about the same things in the same range
with a little bit more if there is a state return.
Moving in or out of the country or part year
earnings in the US will ALWAYS be $800 and up.
TDF 90-22.1 forms are $50 for the first and
$25.00 each after that when part of a tax return.
8891 forms are generally $50.00 to $100.00
each.
18 RRSPs would be $900.00 - (maybe amalgamate
a couple)
Capital gains *sales) are likely $50.00
for the first and $20.00 each after that.
Just a guideline not etched in
stone.
This from "ask an income trusts tax and immigration
expert" from www.centa.com or www.jurock.com or www.featureweb.com. David Ingram
deals on a daily basis with expatriate tax returns with multi
jurisdictional cross and trans border expatriate problems for the United
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