Your articles below bother me very much with regard to my own
situation.  I retired from the Canadian federal government in
July 2005 and went to live in my house in Florida n August and
just got back . I had been to Florida 2 wks in Feb2004 & 6 days
April 2004 to finalize the purchase of my house there.  I know
about the weird 183 days calculations & I think I'm ok (am I?) to
return in 2007.  Could you tell me how many days I am allowed to
be there in 2007?  Beyond that, I'm worried about your border
crossing stories.  I sold my house in Canada to buy a house in
Florida  since it was too expensive to rent for the winter where
I go in Florida and I don't mind renting (cannot afford to buy
another house) when I'm in Canada (Ottawa).  I have no intention
of breaking the 183 day rule, & when I leave Florida, I
disconnect my phone & TV, but since I'm renting, my lease ,TV &
phone bills only apply to when I'm in Canada.  I maintain
Canadian travel insurance, as well as my federal dental & health
insurance plans and car license/insurance; I belong to the
federal retired persons association, my pension cheque is direct
deposited into my Canadian bank account but I also have  a bank
account & credit/debit card in Florida.  I need all these to
logistaically function in both countries.  My daughter also lives
in  XXXXXXXXXXX.  Could they possibly top me at the border when I
return in 2007 even though I have not nor do i intend to break
the 183 day rule?  If so, how can I prevent this?
  PS: I'm confused ...why do you refer to the 120 day rule?
  PPS: Why does everyone think they can stay 6 months in each
country per year?  Does the 183 day rule over 3 years not apply
to amt of time we are legally allowed to stay as well as being a
tax rule?  (This doesn't seem to coincide with the 6 month
Canadian rule for health cards) athere seems to be no consistency
so it's hard to know in real terms what we ARE allowed to do and
hopw to to prove we aren't doing anything wrong so we can just
visit Florida legally!!  HELP!!
  PPPS: your website & newsletters are IMMENSELY helpful.  You
perform a very valuable service that we cannot get elsewhere!!
thank you!!!
  david ingram replies:
  There is nothing stopping you from being in the United States
for 300 days if you make several trips.  However, if you exceed
183 days, you become taxable in the US on your world income.
  As described, you will be caught in the substantial presence
test in 2006 if you spend another 2 weeks in Florida in 2006
because you sold a house in Canada to buy in Florida. Look up
form 8840 at and fill it in to see if "you"  think
you qualify to escape US tax.However, having the house there and
none in Canada would indicate to me and others that your "home"
is in the USA.  As one US tax man told me a while ago, "If he has
a golf cart in Arizona, I've got him".
  Let's count the days
  I think that your reference to 2004 to buy the house was really
2005.  If so, your days in the US following the 120 day rule
would be:
  2005 days equals      14
  likely  equals about  150 days
  2006 is already        123 days
   2 more weeks          14
    equals                   137 days  plus
  1/3 of 150 from 2005  50
  equals about            187 days
  You will be dead in the water in 2007.  However, this is not
bad.  Just file the tax return.  There will not be any income tax
to pay. Your real problem is going there period.If you are giving
up your rented space in Canada when you go south, you are in the
US illegally as to be a visitor, you have to have a full-blown
residence with a bed and phone and couch, etc. in Canada.
  And, medical is a problem because if you sleep in the US more
than 183 days, your Ontario Medical is null and void which
cancels the trip insurance.
   Hope this helps
  centapede at wrote:
    Subject: Purchasing Property in the United States
    Expert: taxman at
    Date: Wednesday May 03, 2006
    Time: 10:21 PM -0700
    We are thinking about purchasing a condo in Southern
California with 2 other
    couples (total of 3 owners). The intention would be for each
couple to have
    4 months personal use each year ( in other words we would not
have any
    rental income). How would you proceed with the purchase (eg.
would you set
    up a corporation to hold the property?). Also what tax
complications might
    owning this US property cause?
    Thanks for you help.
    david ingram replies:
    Sounds like a great idea and providing no one gets divorced
and that part of
    the property ends up in the middle of a divorce action, you
will be okay.
    think up a solution to what will happen upon death of one of
the parties or
    a divorce.
    i.e. do the kids of the departed get the unit or do the
others get to
    automatically buy them out at FMV.
    buying life insurance on all the purchasers' lives would
solve the problem.
    If any of your estates exceeds $3,000,000 or so today, there
could be an
    estate tax problem but it is just paperwork in the long run
because the
    estate tax (if any) becomes a credit against Canadian capital
gains tax
    which you would all have upon death if the property was a
condo in Whistler
    or a waterfront cabin on Saltspring island. Just different
paperwork which
    is what we do.
    I would not even think of a corporation.
    There will be no tax consequences if you are all in the US
less than 120
    days a year. If there longer you can run into US substantial
presence rules
    as follows:
    My April 1994 newsletter explains most of it I think.
    April 1994 Pages 35-43
    the CEN-TA PEDE
    david ingram's US/Canadian Newsletter
    I recently received a copy of a newsletter from a Canadian
enclave in the
    State of Washington. The newsletter dealt with the possible
requirement to
    file a US tax return by Canadians who have recreational
property in the US.
    In this particular case, there are some 2,000 Canadian
members of this one
    enclave and there are another 30 to 40,000 estimated Canadian
    recreational properties in the US within a three hour drive
of Vancouver.
    The newsletter was very accurate in explaining the "rules"
but bothered me
    because it dealt mainly with fear of filing rather than with
the logical
    Let me explain
    There is nothing new about the requirement of a Canadian
Snowbird to file a
    US tax return if they are in the US too many days.
    Many of you will remember when Howard Hughes came to live at
    INN. For six months we were titillated with Howard Hughes
stories and the
    speculative question among tax consultants was: "Would he
stay more than 183
    The answer was "NO". He left Vancouver (and Canada) on the
181st or 182nd
    day because if he had stayed just one more day, he would have
become taxable
    in Canada on his WORLD INCOME.
    The United States had and has the same 183 day rule as does
Great Britain,
    Australia, New Zealand, etc. The difference is found in how
the United
    States has calculated the 183 days since 1984. That's right,
    supposedly new rules are now just about 10 years old. What
has changed is
    the stepped up enforcement of ten year old existing tax laws.
    If you are in the US more than 183 days this year, you are
taxable on your
    world income. But it can also sneak up on you in the
following way.
    The United States calculates the 183 days for THIS year by
counting some of
    the days for the preceding two years if you have been in the
US for more
    than 30 days in the current year.
    So, if you have been in the US for 126 days a year for this
year and the
    last two years, the calculation is:
    1993 126 days
    1992 (1/3 of 126 days) 42 days
    1991 (1/6 of 126 days) 21 days
    For a total of 189 days
    and you are taxable on your world income unless you can prove
you have a
    closer connection to another country.
    You might want to and even be able to prove you have a closer
connection to
    Canada by filing a form 8840 but "why bother" when filling
out the tax
    return itself is easier and leaves you free to "live your
    On the other hand, filling out the 8840 just leaves a list of
people for the
    IRS to look at and will leave you paranoid. Filling out the
tax form is
    usually relatively painless (if you deal with my office, that
is), and
    leaves you free to join a golf club and be in (and out of)
the US for 189,
    210 or maybe even 300 (under these extended rules) days as
long as you have
    a full blown home waiting for you in Canada or any other
    US "IMMIGRATION" laws say that a Canadian can be a visitor
for up to six
    months. That literally means that you can go across the
border to your
    cabin, chalet, trailer pad, ranchette, condo or sailboat in
Elliott Bay,
    stay there for 180 days, come back to your home in Canada for
a day or a
    week or two, and go back for another 180 days.
    US "INCOME TAX" law says that if you do that, you have to
file an American
    Tax Return. So what! 150,000,000 other people file a US tax
return every
    year and they have to "PAY" tax to the US. If you have
already paid full tax
    to Canada and if all your income comes from Canada, the US
rules allow a
    foreign tax credit for the tax paid to Canada. There is
usually zero tax for
    the Canadian to pay to the US.
    At "up to $40,000 US" for a couple, there is usually no tax
payable to the
    US. After $40,000 per couple, an Alternative Minimum Tax can
creep in. But
    do not worry. At $80,000 US, it will not be over $600.00.
And, if you do not
    mind me saying so, if you are in the US for half the year,
and you made over
    $80,000 US (about $105,000 Canadian), you can afford to pay
$600.00 to the
    If you do not want to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax of
$600, there is
    another simple solution which you should have done anyway.
Make sure you
    have some investment income from the US. Say about $6,000 to
$10,000. This
    will generate a tax liability to the US First (don't worry,
Canada will give
    you credit for every cent paid to the US and reduce your
Canadian tax
    accordingly). Alternative Minimum Tax usually only kicks in
when you aren't
    paying the US any tax.
    What are the advantages of the david ingram method of dealing
with these
    A. You are free to come and go without worrying about the
"tax man".
    B. By having some of your wealth in the US, you are hedging
your retirement
    C. You can join the library, golf club, ski club, buy all the
furniture you
    want, buy a golf cart, and just plain enjoy your
    D. You will be forced to deal with your medical insurance. At
the moment,
    all sorts of SNOWBIRDS believe they have coverage under the
Canadian Medical
    Services plans while they are spending most of their time in
the US. LET ME
you are
    covered. BC MEDICAL routinely cancels medical insurance
    their investigators find a person sleeping in the United
States more than
    183 days a year. BC Medical, OHIP, New Brunswick and every
other provincial
    medical plan all insist that you "SLEEP" in that PROVINCE
more than 183
    nights to qualify for their medical plans.
    E. You will not have to come up with detailed answers for the
8840 which has
    questions like:
    19. Where were your personal belongings, furniture, etc.
    20. List social, cultural, religious, and political
organizations you
    currently participate in and the location of each:
    a __________________________ Location
    b __________________________ Location
    c __________________________ Location
    d __________________________ Location
    e __________________________ Location
    >>>>>>>>>(10 other questions>
    31 List any charitable organizations to which you made
contributions and
    their location.
    a __________________________ Location
    b __________________________ Location
    c __________________________ Location
    d __________________________ Location
    F. By filing as a "resident for tax purposes" of the United
States, you
    should escape inheritance tax on amounts of over $60,000.
(changing with new
    A. You have to file an extra tax return. But so do residents
of Quebec and
    you are getting cheaper gas, eggs, milk and turkeys.
    B. No others that I can think of.
    The following is a copy of a "SNOWBIRD" article I wrote back
in 1992 and
    which seems appropriate about here.
    The US government is starting to enforce long standing rules
    Canadian SNOWBIRDS, and, to be sure, anyone else who spends a
lot of time in
    the US. It can more easily apply to someone who has a cabin
in the San Juan
    Islands or a summer (winter) cabin at Birch Bay, Point
Roberts or Mount
    Baker as it can someone with the place in Palm Springs or
    In particular, if you rent that cabin out during the year,
you MUST file a
    tax return as well. Failure to report even $600 rent can
result in an
    automatic tax of 30% of the gross with no expenses allowed
AND penalties
    plus a fine of (are you ready for this?), up to $10,000 for
failing to file
    But back to SNOWBIRDS (or summer visitors who go back and
forth a lot to
    shop, etc.).
    DAYS. AND, The US counts the number of days one is in the
Country in the
    following manner.
    Take the days present this year - let's say 130 days
    add 1/3 of the days in the previous year
    and if that was 120 we get another 40 days
    plus 1/6 of the days present two years previous
    and if that was another 120 we get 20 days
    for a total of: 190 days
    and we are now taxable in the US on our "WORLD" income. i.e.,
the person
    must report his or her Canadian Pensions, interest,
dividends, rents,
    farming and capital gains income to the US as well as Canada.
    The person is taxable in other words, even if no income is
coming from the
    US simply because of physical presence. Canadians will
remember back in 1977
    when Howard Hughes was ensconced in the BAYSHORE INN. He left
town on his
    182nd day because Canada would have taxed Howard on his world
income if he
    had stayed 2 more days.
    It is possible to avoid this by filing a "DECLARATION OF
    TO CANADA" with the IRS Service Centre, Philadelphia, PA,
19255. This
    Declaration would state that your family, belongings,
permanent residence,
    social and business ties are all in Canada.
    The problem is that with time, these ties "move south". The
    bought a nicer place in Arizona than they have in Nanaimo or
Lethbridge. The
    Snowbird has bought a cheaper US car in Arizona. The Snowbird
has rented out
    their house in Campbell River and is living in a motorhome in
Arizona and
    California in the Winter and travels through Canada in the
Summer. The
    Canadian has taken out a US Visa card and MasterCard. In
other words, their
    centre of influence has moved south and their closer ties are
    "definitively" in Canada anymore.
    And, if it is half and half or even close to, the US will
quite properly
    want a tax return.
    But fear not. File the Canadian tax return first and then
file the US tax
    return and claim foreign tax credits for the tax paid to
Canada. Unless the
    income is over $40,000 US, the tax paid to Canada is usually
enough to wipe
    out any US tax.
    If the income is over $40,000 US, there may be a small amount
of Alternative
    Minimum Tax to pay. The problem is US Immigration
Department's crackdown on
    Canadian Snowbirds or "border livers" in Motorhomes and other
    Canadians spending a lot of time in the U.S.
    Let me use a few examples:
    Situation 1
    72 year old woman with a condominium in Phoenix, Arizona. Has
been spending
    every winter in Phoenix for the past ten years. Owns a
$400,000 house in
    Vancouver. She rents the house out every winter and has no
phone number in
    Vancouver "in the book" because her number is disconnected
when the phone
    book closes in January every year.
    She is driving down to Phoenix after renting out her house
and the INS
    person at the U.S. Border questions her closely. He decides
that she "might"
    be trying to live in the U.S. and turns her back at the
border. He asks for
    such things as "phone bills", to prove that she lives in
Canada and is only
    "visiting" in the U.S.
    Of course, she is in a tough spot. She finds it easy to rent
out her
    Vancouver House for a nominal rent every winter but it is
impossible to rent
    out her Phoenix condominium in the summer when she is not
using it.
    The question is: "where is she LIVING" and where is she
    INS has decided that she is now "living" in the U.S. and
"visiting" Canada
    and that is not legal without going through a lengthy
immigration process.
    Banned from the US under these circumstances.
    Situation 2:
    A 70 year old man who with his wife has had US resident alien
cards for some
    20 years and has been working in the U.S. for the same twenty
years and
    still is. Owns a house in Vancouver that his mother lives in
and a
    condominium in Los Angeles that he and his wife have lived in
for that
    twenty years.
    He has a phone number in Vancouver in the house that his
mother lives in and
    he owns.
    His wife is in Vancouver for an extended period looking after
his mother. He
    comes up for a weekend. On the way back through Vancouver
Airport, he is
    questioned by INS. He innocently tells the story to the INS
officer who
    decides that with a phone number in Vancouver and his wife in
Vancouver for
    19 months, and because he has a BC Medical Card, the person
has likely given
    up his residence in the U.S. and starts to take away his
resident alien
    card. Calmer heads prevail and he is allowed to keep it but
told he better
    straighten out his act. He has made the mistake of having all
sorts of
    Canadian Identification including a B.C. medical Card. There
is a "theory"
    that he is not allowed to have a B.C. Medical card if he is a
resident of
    California. U.S. INS officer reports him to B.C. Medical.
    Situation 3
    A couple sell their house and buy an expensive Canadian
Registered (that is
    the key to me - if they were not intending to be Canadians,
the motorhome
    would have been $80,000 U.S. cheaper in the U.S.) Beaver
motorhome. They
    spend some time in the U.S. and come home for Xmas and then
start off to
    tour some more. They have been told by a 100 people that they
can be in the
    U.S. as visitors for up to 183 days legally.
    After Xmas, they leave to go south at Huntington Crossing and
are told that
    they cannot enter as they cannot prove that they "LIVE" in
Canada. Their
    mailing address is their daughter's house and they have no
phone number,
    etc. Their vacation - retirement - snow birding is ruined as
they are not
    allowed in the US as visitors.
    Situation 4
    This is out of the Vancouver Sun, I have not met the people.
    Another couple sell their home and buy a truck and trailer.
They spend some
    time in the U.S. and come back up to Vancouver to visit. They
leave the
    trailer in Redmond, Washington, and when they go to go back
to the U.S.
    after their Vancouver visit, an INS person at Huntington /
Sumas crossing
    denies them entry on the grounds that they do not have a home
in Canada. He
    is allowed 3 days compassionate leave to get his trailer and
return to
    Canada (again, please note that the truck and trailer are
registered in
    Situation 5
    A Couple sell their condo in Vancouver and rent another
apartment in the
    same building. They keep the same phone number. They buy a
house in Whatcom
    County and check with an INS officer at the Huntington
crossing as to
    whether they can take some of their furniture down (this book
says they
    can). When they go to visit their house at Xmas, 1991 (two
weeks after
    talking to the INS officer) with a U-Haul trailer full of
their excess
    furniture, they are questioned at the same Huntington Border
Crossing by the
    same INS officer and denied entry. The INS officer asks for
such things as
    address, phone number, etc., and of course, the address in
the phone book is
    different. The house in the U.S. is far nicer than the rented
apartment. The
    house in the U.S. is within commuting distance to the
husband's employment.
    The INS officer decides they are going to "LIVE" in the U.S.
and spend
    occasional time in Vancouver "if" they even really have a
place in
    Vancouver. They are denied entry to the US with their excess
    Situation 6
    A couple with a house in Greater Vancouver and a cabin at
Point Roberts are
    denied access to their cabin before Xmas. They are told by
the INS officer
    that they have been in the U.S. too much in 1991 and to come
back in 1992.
    Situation 7
    A young lady with a boy friend in Seattle whom she visits on
a regular basis
    with no problems is denied entry to the U.S. when she arrives
at the border
    driving a rental car. She shares an apartment in Vancouver
with someone and
    there is no phone in her name. She has stuff in her luggage
that indicates
    she spends a lot of time in Seattle and also has a picture in
the car which
    she is talking down as a present. It "LOOKS LIKE" maybe she
lives in Seattle
    and visits Vancouver.
    Situation 8
    Same situation, different cities. A young lady with a fiancée
working in
    Chicago for two years flies down to visit him almost every
weekend from
    Toronto. She works for an airline and it costs her virtually
nothing do fly
    down. She shares an apartment in Toronto and has no phone,
and little
    Toronto ID. Even her car is a company car so she doesn't have
a car, phone,
    or apartment in her name even though she has a full time job
in Toronto and
    that is obvious from her business identification and a call
to her employer.
    The INS officer is not satisfied. he feels she is living with
her boyfriend
    in Chicago and commuting to work in Toronto. She is banned
from the U.S. but
    invited to get proof of her Canadian Residence.
    Situation 9
    I do not know this couple either. It comes from CTV National
News. Couple in
    Maple Ridge are going to U.S. through the same Huntington
crossing. They
    have been down dozens of times. They are asked if they have
ever been
    arrested. He says no because he has a Canadian pardon. For
some reason, the
    INS people check. He was arrested and charged and convicted
18 years before
    for the possession of a single marijuana cigarette. HER car
is seized. At
    last word, the car was not being returned and will not be.
    Situation 10
    Same Crossing. A Vancouver City Policeman who has a criminal
charge against
    him and is under suspension is going across the border with
his wife and one
    other person. His truck is seized for trying to get into the
U.S. while
    under a charge. It also turns out his wife has a criminal
    You see; it does not matter whether you are asked or not, it
is illegal to
    enter the U.S. if you have a criminal record or have been
arrested unless
    you have a waiver from the U.S. Department of Justice. And,
if you are
    taking someone else across with your car or they borrow your
car and drive
    across the US border without mentioning the charge (even with
a waiver
    form), you lose your car.
    Situation 11
    Osooyos Crossing, Aug 19, 1992. A couple and their two
children and 8
    friends are crossing to the U.S. for Mexican Food at
Oroville, Washington.
    They are in a 33 foot motorhome and INS decides to question
all people
    asking where born, what citizenship, where they live, and
have you ever been
    arrested. Driver says yes but not convicted. INS officer
takes information
    and comes back a few minutes later and bans driver from U.S.
    INS officer warns all other members of party that they are
not to assist
    driver across U.S. border or they can be arrested themselves.
Tells driver
    "I am sure glad you said YES, or I would have had this
motorhome". It took
    "david ingram" 4 months to get an official waiver to go back
to U.S.
    You see, an arrest in Canada and either a "Stay of
proceedings", or an
    "Absolute Discharge", or a "Conditional Discharge" is treated
by the U.S. as
    if you were convicted, even if the offence is minor. Getting
charged with
    stealing a loaf of bread can have you banned from the U.S.
for life.
    The solution is to get a "Canadian Non-Resident Alien Border
Crossing Card"
    and waiver. This costs $80.00 U.S. and requires
fingerprinting by the RCMP
    and FBI but is a relatively painless experience. If you wish
    information on this topic, we would be glad to assist. There
are also
    regular advertisements for "Pardons" and "U S Waivers" in the
Vancouver Sun
    and Province. Write for more information to: David Ingram,
201-935 Marine
    Drive, North Vancouver, B.C., V7P 1S3 or fax to (604)
649-4759 or call (604)
    Situation 12
    A "highly placed" lady from Ottawa decides to sneak into a
class at a
    University in the U.S. for a semester. She does not bother
with the
    formality of a Student "F-1" visa but just "goes south". She
has student
    cards, library cards, etc. Then she comes up to Canada for a
weekend with a
    fellow lady student from the University (these are not kids,
these are 30
    year old women). When going back to the U.S. in the U.S.
student's car, she
    is questioned and the U.S. student I.D. is found. She is
banned from the
    She has been identified and should know that an INS officer
might check
    later at the U.S. University to see if she has snuck in, BUT
she just isn't
    She calls a Canadian Friend and tells her what happened. the
Canadian says,
    don't worry, I'll take you down, we'll just say we are going
shopping". The
    Canadian picks up the Canadian Student and they arrange to
meet the American
    student on the other side of the border. They make it across
but the U.S.
    Border people follow the American car which now is short a
Canadian Student.
    When they meet at a U.S. Shopping centre to transfer baggage,
etc., they are
    surrounded by U.S. Border patrol cars. All three are arrested
and spend 8
    hours in jail. $51,000 worth of cars are impounded. The two
Canadians are
    deposited back at the Canadian Side of the border and spend
$70.00 on a taxi
    to get home.
    The Canadian car is a lease car with hefty payments. Finally,
with the
    payment of a $2,000 "penalty", the leasing company gets the
car back but is
    told that they may not give it back to the Canadian, nor may
they make any
    special financial arrangements with her on another car. i.e.
she is to get
    no benefit and she is expected to make up any shortfall to
the leasing
    company. I do not know what happened to the American's car.
Stay tuned.
    U.S. to CANADA
    Please note that the Canadian Customs are getting tougher
every day. In
    1989, the borders south of Vancouver seized some 1,000 cars.
In 1991, they
    seized 10,000 cars from returning Canadians and U.S.
    In fact, a drunk driving charge in the U.S. bans a U.S.
citizen from Canada
    for life. The U.S. is far more sophisticated when it comes to
waivers and
    entry of people with problems. Smuggling, particularly
cigarettes, firearms,
    and alcohol will get you severe penalties. It isn't worth it.
    Copyright © 1996-2004 david Ingram
    Updated February 23, 2004, All rights Reserved
    Cross-border Income Tax Preparation Experts
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Border, Canada,
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    David Ingram's US / Canada Services
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    North Vancouver, BC, CANADA, V7N 3L7
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    Disclaimer: This question has been answered without detailed
information or
    consultation and is to be regarded only as general comment.
Nothing in
    this message is or should be construed as advice in any
    circumstances. No contract exists between the reader and the
author and any
    and all non-contractual duties are expressly denied. All
readers should
    obtain formal advice from a competent and appropriately
qualified legal
    practitioner or tax specialist for expert help, assistance,
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