TN visa for CMA - CPA - - who qualifies?
QUESTION:
I am expecting a job offer as Accountant in the United States and want to obtain a TN visa. I have a CMA from the US Institute of Management Accountants (IMA) ? Is this the CMA they want at the border, or is it a Canadian CMA? Also, they also accept the CPA ... I have passed the CPA exams but not yet got a license.
Having passed the exam, I understand that I can obtain a CPA certificate from State of Illinois. This would cost about a few hundred dollars. Is it worthwhile doing so, does the CPA certificate add to my credibility if I already have the CMA credential from the IMA? Thanks!!!
___________________________________________________________-
david ingram replies:
I would expect that taking your 'original' Graduation certificates to the border with your job offer letter would get you a TN visa. However, there is no guarantee. In general, if you need a licence to practice where you are going, an Illinois certificate is not adequate if you are going to New York.
However, reciprocal arrangements would likely mean that if you got Illinois first, you could get New York next.
That happens with Appraisers for instance. Washington State recognizes a BC appraiser but California does not. Appraisers get their Washington licence for a year and then apply for reciprocity with California a year later.
Good luck!
This earlier Q & A might help as well.
> My_question_is: Applicable to both US and Canada
> Subject: Job offer to Canadian
> Expert: [email protected]
> Date: Monday March 26, 2007
> Time: 06:30 PM -0500
>
> QUESTION:
>
> I am a naturalised Canadian citizen living & working in New Brunswick. I have been offered a very exciting job in New Hampshire which would necessitiate a move to the US. My wife and children would not accompany me as we do not want to disrupt their schooling. The thought of leaving my family is very distressing to me, but the job I am offered is to good to pass up. I intend to ask my prospective employer whether it might be possible for me to work for his company, but continue to live in NB, ie, work remotely, and perhaps spend one week a month in NH. If he is agreeable, would I still require a TN Visa to do this? Am I better to be an employee of the company, or to form a company of my own and contract myself to him? Am I able to receive direct deposit of my salary from a US company to a Canadian bank? As far as income tax goes, I expect that I would pay taxes in $ Cdn and file my return with Canada Revenue.
> Alternatively, if I choose to move to NH, I will be sending the majority of my income back to Canada. Am I taxed both in the US and Canada?
> Thank you for your help.
>
> ________________________________________________________________
>
> david ingram replies:
If you were to work in Canada and only visit the US location to pick up work which you take back to Canada to perform, you would not require a visa.
However, if you were expected to perform 'any' services in the US when there, you will need a visa. A TN is good for about 63 specific occupations which are identified as follows: (this is included at www.centa.com in the "entering the USA" section in the second box down on the right hand side).
CHECK LIST for the TN Visa
* An applicant for admission must establish Canadian citizenship
* The applicant must be entering the United States to engage in a profession or occupation at a professional level under NAFTA
* The applicant must be in possession of an offer or contract of employment from a United States employer stating:
1) The professional activity to be engaged in
2) Purpose of entry
3) Remuneration
4) That the position is temporary in nature and will not exceed one year (although it can be renewed)
* The applicant must provide documentation of his or her educational degree or professional qualifications
* The applicant must meet all licensing requirements
* Employment need not be full-time
* Permanent residence abroad is not a prerequisite
* Maximum period of admission of a TN is one year
* TN dependants accompanying the principal TN will be admitted under the "TD" classification for the same amount of time as the principal
* A $56 U.S. fee is required ($85.00 for renewal by mail)
* TN applicants are not permitted to enter as a professional to participate in any way to circumvent a strike
* SELF EMPLOYMENT IS NOT PERMISSIBLE
The following is a partial list of some who qualify under a TN Visa. Please note that extensive experience can equal a degree in many cases. All need a Bachelor or Baccalaureate degree unless otherwise noted. In some cases, 3 or 4 years of practical work in a discipline can count for one year of a University degree. Therefore if the University BA requires 3 years, you need 9 or 12 years of work experience to qualify.
Back to Top
* Accountants - RIA or SIA or CPA or CGA or CMA or CA
** Actuaries (this is one of two classifications added since 1989)
* Agriculturalists
* Agronomists
* Animal Breeders
* Animal Scientists
* Apiculturist
* Architects - BA or state / provincial license
* Astronomers
* Biochemists
* Biologists
* Botanists
* Chemists
* Computer Systems Analyst - BA or Post-secondary Diploma or Post-secondary certificate and three years of practical experience. This does not get you to the USA, if your job is programming a computer. An Analyst might spend a day a month working on some modifications (in a testing mode for instance), but they better not be thought of as a "programmer" within the company.
Back to Top
**** Computer Software Engineer *** This is NOT here as an approved occupation. However, Jackie Bednarz (US head of the NAFTA Section 16 Working group in Washington stated specifically that if a recognized University was to offer the degree, she would consider computer software engineers under the ENGINEER classification when a recognized University granted the degree. My understanding is that SFU and McGill are now granting such degrees and that the Professional Engineers of British Columbia have recognized graduates as members of their professional society. Note that TC and TN's were being granted for this category on a sporadic basis until the INS realized that no such "official" degree existed.
Jackie Bednarz also pointed out (She was part of the original negotiating team when the original FTA (Free Trade Agreement) was being negotiated in 1985, 86, 87 and 88, there was no such thing as the INTERNET, "web masters" and "web sites". When negotiating the job titles, no thought was given to the computer revolution, other than the computer system analyst designation, which at the time meant a main frame analyst for a $1,000,000 computer.
(Thanks to Stuart Lynne and Richard Pitt) (www.fireplug.net), the CEN-TA Group was an official member of the internet as far back as 1986 and thanks to Bill Gates himself (he told me to use Microsoft Xenix as my operating system) and Radio Shack Model 16 computers, CEN-TA was using "email" between offices in Toronto, Ottawa and Vancouver as early as 1983.
As another aside, Stuart Lynne and Richard Pitt went on to found WIMSEY, the FIRST ISP in CANADA. Bill Gates became quite famous as well.
Back to Top
* Dairy Scientists
* Dentists - DDS, DMD, or state / provincial license
* Dental Technicians
* Dietitian
* Disaster Relief Insurance Claim Specialists - (claims adjuster employed by an insurance company located in the territory of a party or an independent claims adjuster) - BA and successful completion of training in the appropriate areas of insurance adjustment pertaining to disaster relief claims; or, three years experience in claims adjustment and successful completion of training in the appropriate areas of insurance adjustment pertaining to disaster relief claims
* Doctors - (see physician further on)
* Economists
* Engineers - BA or state / provincial licensing
* Entomologists
* Epidemiologists
* Forester - BA or state / provincial licensing
* Geneticists
* Geochemist
* Geologist
* Geophysicists (including Oceanographer in the United States)
* Graphic Designer - BA or post-secondary diploma and three years experience.
* Hotel Managers - BA in hotel / restaurant management; or, post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate in hotel / restaurant management and three years experience in hotel / restaurant management
* Horticulturist
* Industrial Designer - BA or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate and three years experience
* Interior Designer - BA or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate and three years experience
* Journalist BA plus three years experience - (This category is no longer valid and has been left in to explain the circumstances. As I understand it, journalists in general took it as an insult that they had to have a BA degree, because, "most, if not all," of the best known journalists do not have a BA degree.)
* Land Surveyor - BA or state / provincial licenses
* Landscape Architect
* Lawyer (including notary in the Province of Quebec) - LLB, JD, LLL, BCL degree (five years); or membership in a state or provincial bar
* Librarians - MLS or BLS (for which another BA was a prerequisite)
Back to Top
* Management Consultants - BA; or equivalent professional experience as established by statement or professional credential attesting to five years experience as a management consultant, or five years experience in a field of specialty relating to the consulting agreement. I must make it clear here. A Management Consultant is NOT a manager. The surest way to lose your management consultant renewal is to show up at the border with a business card with the title General Manager, Western Region, or Human Resources Manager, or, or, or. A management consultant could consult with the actual sales manager about sales techniques or about selling into Canada. A management consultant could be advising the actual human resources manager in hiring techniques or even suggesting that one candidate is a better fit than another one. A management consultant can do market research, gather and assemble data and write a report to give to the manager. This is likely the hardest TN visa to get but is also a very important one when it comes to serving the needs of the US company.
Note that the management consultant does NOT need a degree, just five years experience. This is the perfect job description for the person with 23 years of job experience who has never gone through the formal process of getting a university degree in the discipline.
* Mathematician (including statistician)
* Medical Laboratory Technologist (Canada) / Medical Technologist (U.S.) - BA; or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate and three years experience
* Meteorologist
* Nutritionist
* Occupational Therapist - BA; or state / provincial license
* Organic Chemist
* Pharmacologist (Pharmacist) - BA; or state / provincial license
* Physician - (teaching or research only), MD or state /provincial license. To work as MD, a doctor must pass his MLE (medical licensing exam), which has three, parts written over a year. After passing, he or she would enter the U.S. under an H-1A.
* Physicist (including oceanographer in Canada)
* Physiotherapist/Physical Therapist - BA; or state /provincial license
* Plant Breeder
** Plant Pathologists (This is one of two professions added since 1989)
* Poultry Scientist
* Professional (most recognized professions)
* Psychologists - state / provincial license
* Range Conservationist
* Recreational Therapist
* Registered Nurse - state / provincial license
* Research Assistant (working in post-secondary educational institution)
Back to Top
- * Scientific Technician - Possession of: (a) theoretical knowledge of any of the disciplines: agricultural sciences, astronomy, biology, chemistry, engineering, forestry, geology, geophysics, meteorology, or physics; and (b) the ability to solve practical problems in any of those disciplines, or the ability to apply principles of any of those disciplines to basic or applied research.
* Social Worker
* Soil Scientist
* Sylviculturist
* Teacher (College, Seminary, or University) (Post Secondary level only)
* Technical Publication Writer - BA, or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate, and three years experience
* Urban Planner (including geographer)
* Veterinarian
* Vocational Counselor
* Zoologist
Back to Top
SUBJECT TO CHANGE
This list is subject to change at any time. When talking to Dennis Olsen about updating the rules, I mentioned a nurse who had found out that nurses could go south instantly in the late 1970's. She got a job offer from a Hawaii hospital, came back to Vancouver, quit her job, sold her house, kicked out her husband, gave away the dogs and showed up at the airport to move to Hawaii, only to find out that they had closed the quota for nurses.
And then, as I was writing this exact section of the book in March, 1995, I received a call from a Doctor who had a job offer from the U.S., sold his house and Canadian practice, only to be told that he did not qualify when he showed up at the border because although a practicing family physician in Canada and fully qualified to go south with a Green Card (a resident alien immigrant visa), he did not qualify as a TN (can only teach or do research) and he did not qualify as an H-1B because he had not written an MLE. This medical licensing exam is written in three stages over a one year timetable. I guess he has to sue his immigration attorney in Los Angeles. This attorney knew he did not have his MLE, but charged him significant monies and told him he could get in now!
Remember, NONE of the foregoing confers permanent status. For permanent status, you must still stand in some sort of line. However, it seems to be true that if you are in the U.S. as a TN or as a L-1, your line moves much faster than if you start from out of the country.
_____________________________________________
If you do not have the proper degree, you will not qualify for a TN visa.
Next would be an H1B visa which takes a year to get.
As a TN, it is permissble for the employer to pay you as a 'contract employee' on a 1099 which would mean no tax, Medicare or Social Security would be deducted. That means that you would be paying both halves of Social Security so you might want to negotiate a contract that had the company pay you an extra amount which would be equal to their share of the FICA they would have to pay you as an employee.
Whatever you do, do NOT incorporate in either country.
If you are considered self-employed (paid on a 1099 basis and spending 3 out of 4 weeks in Canada), you do NOT pay tax to the US under Article 15 of the US / Canada Income Tax treaty. However, you still have to file a tax return to claim the exemption. And New Hampshire does tax self-employed people but not employees.
If they hire you as an employee, you will be paying US tax first and Canadian Tax second. On the Canadian return, you put the amount of tax and Social Security paid to the US on line 431 of Schedule 1 You put the US income on lines 104 or 135 AND line 431 in order to claim the foreign tax credit.
Also, since you are paying Canadian tax under the circumstances you describe, do NOT put your own money into a 401(K) - Canada will not recognize the decution. If they have a 401(K) program, get them to pay you their share separately so that you can buy a Canadian RRSP with the money.
I am expecting a job offer as Accountant in the United States and want to obtain a TN visa. I have a CMA from the US Institute of Management Accountants (IMA) ? Is this the CMA they want at the border, or is it a Canadian CMA? Also, they also accept the CPA ... I have passed the CPA exams but not yet got a license.
Having passed the exam, I understand that I can obtain a CPA certificate from State of Illinois. This would cost about a few hundred dollars. Is it worthwhile doing so, does the CPA certificate add to my credibility if I already have the CMA credential from the IMA? Thanks!!!
___________________________________________________________-
david ingram replies:
I would expect that taking your 'original' Graduation certificates to the border with your job offer letter would get you a TN visa. However, there is no guarantee. In general, if you need a licence to practice where you are going, an Illinois certificate is not adequate if you are going to New York.
However, reciprocal arrangements would likely mean that if you got Illinois first, you could get New York next.
That happens with Appraisers for instance. Washington State recognizes a BC appraiser but California does not. Appraisers get their Washington licence for a year and then apply for reciprocity with California a year later.
Good luck!
This earlier Q & A might help as well.
> My_question_is: Applicable to both US and Canada
> Subject: Job offer to Canadian
> Expert: [email protected]
> Date: Monday March 26, 2007
> Time: 06:30 PM -0500
>
> QUESTION:
>
> I am a naturalised Canadian citizen living & working in New Brunswick. I have been offered a very exciting job in New Hampshire which would necessitiate a move to the US. My wife and children would not accompany me as we do not want to disrupt their schooling. The thought of leaving my family is very distressing to me, but the job I am offered is to good to pass up. I intend to ask my prospective employer whether it might be possible for me to work for his company, but continue to live in NB, ie, work remotely, and perhaps spend one week a month in NH. If he is agreeable, would I still require a TN Visa to do this? Am I better to be an employee of the company, or to form a company of my own and contract myself to him? Am I able to receive direct deposit of my salary from a US company to a Canadian bank? As far as income tax goes, I expect that I would pay taxes in $ Cdn and file my return with Canada Revenue.
> Alternatively, if I choose to move to NH, I will be sending the majority of my income back to Canada. Am I taxed both in the US and Canada?
> Thank you for your help.
>
> ________________________________________________________________
>
> david ingram replies:
If you were to work in Canada and only visit the US location to pick up work which you take back to Canada to perform, you would not require a visa.
However, if you were expected to perform 'any' services in the US when there, you will need a visa. A TN is good for about 63 specific occupations which are identified as follows: (this is included at www.centa.com in the "entering the USA" section in the second box down on the right hand side).
CHECK LIST for the TN Visa
* An applicant for admission must establish Canadian citizenship
* The applicant must be entering the United States to engage in a profession or occupation at a professional level under NAFTA
* The applicant must be in possession of an offer or contract of employment from a United States employer stating:
1) The professional activity to be engaged in
2) Purpose of entry
3) Remuneration
4) That the position is temporary in nature and will not exceed one year (although it can be renewed)
* The applicant must provide documentation of his or her educational degree or professional qualifications
* The applicant must meet all licensing requirements
* Employment need not be full-time
* Permanent residence abroad is not a prerequisite
* Maximum period of admission of a TN is one year
* TN dependants accompanying the principal TN will be admitted under the "TD" classification for the same amount of time as the principal
* A $56 U.S. fee is required ($85.00 for renewal by mail)
* TN applicants are not permitted to enter as a professional to participate in any way to circumvent a strike
* SELF EMPLOYMENT IS NOT PERMISSIBLE
The following is a partial list of some who qualify under a TN Visa. Please note that extensive experience can equal a degree in many cases. All need a Bachelor or Baccalaureate degree unless otherwise noted. In some cases, 3 or 4 years of practical work in a discipline can count for one year of a University degree. Therefore if the University BA requires 3 years, you need 9 or 12 years of work experience to qualify.
Back to Top
* Accountants - RIA or SIA or CPA or CGA or CMA or CA
** Actuaries (this is one of two classifications added since 1989)
* Agriculturalists
* Agronomists
* Animal Breeders
* Animal Scientists
* Apiculturist
* Architects - BA or state / provincial license
* Astronomers
* Biochemists
* Biologists
* Botanists
* Chemists
* Computer Systems Analyst - BA or Post-secondary Diploma or Post-secondary certificate and three years of practical experience. This does not get you to the USA, if your job is programming a computer. An Analyst might spend a day a month working on some modifications (in a testing mode for instance), but they better not be thought of as a "programmer" within the company.
Back to Top
**** Computer Software Engineer *** This is NOT here as an approved occupation. However, Jackie Bednarz (US head of the NAFTA Section 16 Working group in Washington stated specifically that if a recognized University was to offer the degree, she would consider computer software engineers under the ENGINEER classification when a recognized University granted the degree. My understanding is that SFU and McGill are now granting such degrees and that the Professional Engineers of British Columbia have recognized graduates as members of their professional society. Note that TC and TN's were being granted for this category on a sporadic basis until the INS realized that no such "official" degree existed.
Jackie Bednarz also pointed out (She was part of the original negotiating team when the original FTA (Free Trade Agreement) was being negotiated in 1985, 86, 87 and 88, there was no such thing as the INTERNET, "web masters" and "web sites". When negotiating the job titles, no thought was given to the computer revolution, other than the computer system analyst designation, which at the time meant a main frame analyst for a $1,000,000 computer.
(Thanks to Stuart Lynne and Richard Pitt) (www.fireplug.net), the CEN-TA Group was an official member of the internet as far back as 1986 and thanks to Bill Gates himself (he told me to use Microsoft Xenix as my operating system) and Radio Shack Model 16 computers, CEN-TA was using "email" between offices in Toronto, Ottawa and Vancouver as early as 1983.
As another aside, Stuart Lynne and Richard Pitt went on to found WIMSEY, the FIRST ISP in CANADA. Bill Gates became quite famous as well.
Back to Top
* Dairy Scientists
* Dentists - DDS, DMD, or state / provincial license
* Dental Technicians
* Dietitian
* Disaster Relief Insurance Claim Specialists - (claims adjuster employed by an insurance company located in the territory of a party or an independent claims adjuster) - BA and successful completion of training in the appropriate areas of insurance adjustment pertaining to disaster relief claims; or, three years experience in claims adjustment and successful completion of training in the appropriate areas of insurance adjustment pertaining to disaster relief claims
* Doctors - (see physician further on)
* Economists
* Engineers - BA or state / provincial licensing
* Entomologists
* Epidemiologists
* Forester - BA or state / provincial licensing
* Geneticists
* Geochemist
* Geologist
* Geophysicists (including Oceanographer in the United States)
* Graphic Designer - BA or post-secondary diploma and three years experience.
* Hotel Managers - BA in hotel / restaurant management; or, post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate in hotel / restaurant management and three years experience in hotel / restaurant management
* Horticulturist
* Industrial Designer - BA or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate and three years experience
* Interior Designer - BA or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate and three years experience
* Journalist BA plus three years experience - (This category is no longer valid and has been left in to explain the circumstances. As I understand it, journalists in general took it as an insult that they had to have a BA degree, because, "most, if not all," of the best known journalists do not have a BA degree.)
* Land Surveyor - BA or state / provincial licenses
* Landscape Architect
* Lawyer (including notary in the Province of Quebec) - LLB, JD, LLL, BCL degree (five years); or membership in a state or provincial bar
* Librarians - MLS or BLS (for which another BA was a prerequisite)
Back to Top
* Management Consultants - BA; or equivalent professional experience as established by statement or professional credential attesting to five years experience as a management consultant, or five years experience in a field of specialty relating to the consulting agreement. I must make it clear here. A Management Consultant is NOT a manager. The surest way to lose your management consultant renewal is to show up at the border with a business card with the title General Manager, Western Region, or Human Resources Manager, or, or, or. A management consultant could consult with the actual sales manager about sales techniques or about selling into Canada. A management consultant could be advising the actual human resources manager in hiring techniques or even suggesting that one candidate is a better fit than another one. A management consultant can do market research, gather and assemble data and write a report to give to the manager. This is likely the hardest TN visa to get but is also a very important one when it comes to serving the needs of the US company.
Note that the management consultant does NOT need a degree, just five years experience. This is the perfect job description for the person with 23 years of job experience who has never gone through the formal process of getting a university degree in the discipline.
* Mathematician (including statistician)
* Medical Laboratory Technologist (Canada) / Medical Technologist (U.S.) - BA; or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate and three years experience
* Meteorologist
* Nutritionist
* Occupational Therapist - BA; or state / provincial license
* Organic Chemist
* Pharmacologist (Pharmacist) - BA; or state / provincial license
* Physician - (teaching or research only), MD or state /provincial license. To work as MD, a doctor must pass his MLE (medical licensing exam), which has three, parts written over a year. After passing, he or she would enter the U.S. under an H-1A.
* Physicist (including oceanographer in Canada)
* Physiotherapist/Physical Therapist - BA; or state /provincial license
* Plant Breeder
** Plant Pathologists (This is one of two professions added since 1989)
* Poultry Scientist
* Professional (most recognized professions)
* Psychologists - state / provincial license
* Range Conservationist
* Recreational Therapist
* Registered Nurse - state / provincial license
* Research Assistant (working in post-secondary educational institution)
Back to Top
- * Scientific Technician - Possession of: (a) theoretical knowledge of any of the disciplines: agricultural sciences, astronomy, biology, chemistry, engineering, forestry, geology, geophysics, meteorology, or physics; and (b) the ability to solve practical problems in any of those disciplines, or the ability to apply principles of any of those disciplines to basic or applied research.
* Social Worker
* Soil Scientist
* Sylviculturist
* Teacher (College, Seminary, or University) (Post Secondary level only)
* Technical Publication Writer - BA, or post-secondary diploma or post-secondary certificate, and three years experience
* Urban Planner (including geographer)
* Veterinarian
* Vocational Counselor
* Zoologist
Back to Top
SUBJECT TO CHANGE
This list is subject to change at any time. When talking to Dennis Olsen about updating the rules, I mentioned a nurse who had found out that nurses could go south instantly in the late 1970's. She got a job offer from a Hawaii hospital, came back to Vancouver, quit her job, sold her house, kicked out her husband, gave away the dogs and showed up at the airport to move to Hawaii, only to find out that they had closed the quota for nurses.
And then, as I was writing this exact section of the book in March, 1995, I received a call from a Doctor who had a job offer from the U.S., sold his house and Canadian practice, only to be told that he did not qualify when he showed up at the border because although a practicing family physician in Canada and fully qualified to go south with a Green Card (a resident alien immigrant visa), he did not qualify as a TN (can only teach or do research) and he did not qualify as an H-1B because he had not written an MLE. This medical licensing exam is written in three stages over a one year timetable. I guess he has to sue his immigration attorney in Los Angeles. This attorney knew he did not have his MLE, but charged him significant monies and told him he could get in now!
Remember, NONE of the foregoing confers permanent status. For permanent status, you must still stand in some sort of line. However, it seems to be true that if you are in the U.S. as a TN or as a L-1, your line moves much faster than if you start from out of the country.
_____________________________________________
If you do not have the proper degree, you will not qualify for a TN visa.
Next would be an H1B visa which takes a year to get.
As a TN, it is permissble for the employer to pay you as a 'contract employee' on a 1099 which would mean no tax, Medicare or Social Security would be deducted. That means that you would be paying both halves of Social Security so you might want to negotiate a contract that had the company pay you an extra amount which would be equal to their share of the FICA they would have to pay you as an employee.
Whatever you do, do NOT incorporate in either country.
If you are considered self-employed (paid on a 1099 basis and spending 3 out of 4 weeks in Canada), you do NOT pay tax to the US under Article 15 of the US / Canada Income Tax treaty. However, you still have to file a tax return to claim the exemption. And New Hampshire does tax self-employed people but not employees.
If they hire you as an employee, you will be paying US tax first and Canadian Tax second. On the Canadian return, you put the amount of tax and Social Security paid to the US on line 431 of Schedule 1 You put the US income on lines 104 or 135 AND line 431 in order to claim the foreign tax credit.
Also, since you are paying Canadian tax under the circumstances you describe, do NOT put your own money into a 401(K) - Canada will not recognize the decution. If they have a 401(K) program, get them to pay you their share separately so that you can buy a Canadian RRSP with the money.
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