US CANADA Bringing Canadian Money to US or US to Canada 0 E667 E677 104 105 reporting forms
I just saw a question you answered about a Canadian living in the US as a permanent resident selling a home and wanting to transfer the money to a US bank. (http://www.david-ingram.com/CEN-TAPEDE/archive/Week-of-Mon-20061009/002904.html) I'm in the same situation, except I want to keep most of the money in Canada. You said, below, that the banks will notify the treasury on amounts over $10,000. Is this $10,000 at any one time, or per calendar year? What I want to do is bring enough money to pay off my US credit cards. Through several bank withdrawals and cheque deposits I've already put about $9600 Canadian into my US bank (not at the same time) to pay bills. Do I need to wait until next year to bring more in, or is it okay to continue doing this? I would need maybe another $11,000 to pay everything off here. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
david ingram replies:
If you have transferred $9.600 so far and have paid it out already, there is no problem. If you are transferring smaller amounts because you are trying to amass an amount over $10,000 for a single purpose, then you have to report the transfer of more than $10,000 AND the financial institution you have transferred the money to in the USA should be reporting the transaction as well. In fact making several transfers for a total of $12,000 could make you look like a suspicous person whereas one $15,000 transfer would never raise a suspicious person report, especially if the money was then paid out to credit card companies.
The rules for reporting take place for both countries when there is a transfer (or series of transfers) of more than $10,000.
If you do it as a bank transfer, you do not need to worry. The bank will do the reporting for you.
If you take cash out in Caanda and take it across the border yourself, YOU have to do the reporting to both countries.
This older series of questions will help
This last question just gave me an idea for a new question: What if I bring say $15 000 US into Canada but I do it at several trips and every time I carry less then $10 000 (3000-5000)? Any forms to fill or report? Thanks. PxXXXX
-------- david ingram replies: Both countries make the transportation of more than $10,000 in pieces a crime as well.
However, if you were sending a $1,000 a month to a savings plan or something, that would not matter. The crime would be trying to assemble the more than $10,000 in the other country when you had the ability to send it all at once.
I.E. You have $25,000 in a bank in Seattle and send $5,000 every couple of days until it is all in Canada.
In that case, if your banks spotted what was going on, "they" would report you.
The bank will also report when several cheques arrive from different sources and they add up to significant amounts whether the source is from the US or not. This is to stop people from keeping their money in other people's accounts and assembling it when they need it.
All part of anti money laundering legislation.
=============
The original question and answer follows
What forms do I have to fill out if I am transporting more than $10,000 across the Canadian Border
==============================
david ingram replies: The forms are E677 and E667 for Canada and as of September 1, 2004 )today) 104 and 105 for the US if you are bringing the money out of the US into Canada..
The US bank will report the deposit or withdrawal to the US FINCEN on form 4789 (which is still valid until August 31, 2004) or more likely the new form 104 which you can find at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc104.pdf
When you then move the money to Canada by money order or check, the bank or financial institution will report it again.
The US penalties for failure to fill in these simple forms is up to $500,000 PLUS 5 years in jail. If you remove more than $10,000 at any one time, the bank will report those transactions as well. If you decide to carry the cash or transport it out of the USA as a cashier's cheque, you have to file form 105 (old form 4790).
You can find the form at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc105.pdf Canada has moved its forms in the last few days and i had a devil of a time trying to find them.
You can find both E677 and E667 below. http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e677/e677-fill-02b.pdf
E667 is filled out by yourself and E677 is filled out by the financial institution. http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e667/e667-fill-02b.pdf
david ingram replies:
If you have transferred $9.600 so far and have paid it out already, there is no problem. If you are transferring smaller amounts because you are trying to amass an amount over $10,000 for a single purpose, then you have to report the transfer of more than $10,000 AND the financial institution you have transferred the money to in the USA should be reporting the transaction as well. In fact making several transfers for a total of $12,000 could make you look like a suspicous person whereas one $15,000 transfer would never raise a suspicious person report, especially if the money was then paid out to credit card companies.
The rules for reporting take place for both countries when there is a transfer (or series of transfers) of more than $10,000.
If you do it as a bank transfer, you do not need to worry. The bank will do the reporting for you.
If you take cash out in Caanda and take it across the border yourself, YOU have to do the reporting to both countries.
This older series of questions will help
This last question just gave me an idea for a new question: What if I bring say $15 000 US into Canada but I do it at several trips and every time I carry less then $10 000 (3000-5000)? Any forms to fill or report? Thanks. PxXXXX
-------- david ingram replies: Both countries make the transportation of more than $10,000 in pieces a crime as well.
However, if you were sending a $1,000 a month to a savings plan or something, that would not matter. The crime would be trying to assemble the more than $10,000 in the other country when you had the ability to send it all at once.
I.E. You have $25,000 in a bank in Seattle and send $5,000 every couple of days until it is all in Canada.
In that case, if your banks spotted what was going on, "they" would report you.
The bank will also report when several cheques arrive from different sources and they add up to significant amounts whether the source is from the US or not. This is to stop people from keeping their money in other people's accounts and assembling it when they need it.
All part of anti money laundering legislation.
=============
The original question and answer follows
What forms do I have to fill out if I am transporting more than $10,000 across the Canadian Border
==============================
david ingram replies: The forms are E677 and E667 for Canada and as of September 1, 2004 )today) 104 and 105 for the US if you are bringing the money out of the US into Canada..
The US bank will report the deposit or withdrawal to the US FINCEN on form 4789 (which is still valid until August 31, 2004) or more likely the new form 104 which you can find at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc104.pdf
When you then move the money to Canada by money order or check, the bank or financial institution will report it again.
The US penalties for failure to fill in these simple forms is up to $500,000 PLUS 5 years in jail. If you remove more than $10,000 at any one time, the bank will report those transactions as well. If you decide to carry the cash or transport it out of the USA as a cashier's cheque, you have to file form 105 (old form 4790).
You can find the form at: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/ffc105.pdf Canada has moved its forms in the last few days and i had a devil of a time trying to find them.
You can find both E677 and E667 below. http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e677/e677-fill-02b.pdf
E667 is filled out by yourself and E677 is filled out by the financial institution. http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/e667/e667-fill-02b.pdf
What's Related